how much should i get paid

Hi folks, i was just wondering how much should i ask for when i review my salary. i live in Canada, Quebec, Montreal, i came out of privite College 3 mounth a go, i consider my self an average VB but medium-high access an for the rest i'm a bit below the average (never practiced yet except in school). in the place i work i'm the only programmer and i'm pretty much appreciated. i presently have 30 000$/year. how much can we get when starting??

I'll be among the best soon, very soon!!!

Money is nice but happiness is more important (to me anyway)...If you were in Vancouver, I would say you might be in the 34 to 36K range...I don't know what the Montreal market is like though. You should check out the job listings. After all, if you go to your boss and ask for 36K, it helps if you show him a list of comparable jobs paying that much...


"I have a plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel!" - Edmund Blackadder

its hard to compare because most jobs here ask for experience (at least 2 years) but they will take you anyway if you start... so my boss could always says "well you got only 3 months.....blablabla..." but hey it's good to know an approximate price, thanks a lot!

I'll be among the best soon, very soon!!!

I'm in the Montreal area, I work for myself (contracts only). What I see in this city is lots of employers taking advantage of newbies that are fresh out of school. They 'hire' them as interns (no pay) for a few months, then IF they're lucky they'll get 30k/yr.
I have been extremely lucky over the years to get one contract after another and not have to work for anyone else.

what kind of contracts, company do you deal with? How much can you possibly get paid per year? i would loe to be self employed but i need more expérience before that. by the way how old are u? i'm only 22 so i'm not sure if people would take me seriously...

I got to meet my bosses next monday or tuesday... i'm getting nervous for that raise...lol

I'll be among the best soon, very soon!!!

I don't know what the market is like in Canada but I thought I'd put in my 2 cents worth. I consider myself, skillwise, similar to what you expressed and I'm making roughly 45k in Ohio. If the market is only going to support a 30 - 35k salary you might try looking just across the border too.

45k in americain money...... hummmmmmmm!!!!! that's like 60k in canadian money!!!

I'll be among the best soon, very soon!!!

Like I mentioned earlier, I have been very lucky in getting the contracts that I have. I am charging $75.00/hr and bill around 200 hours per month. I'm often on 4 contracts at the same time.(starting one while finalizing another). Laurent asked my age, I'm 40, but I've been running my own show for almost 20 years. I don't think that age is a factor, honestly I don't know what is. I do believe that 'right place right time' plays a part.
If you do have a couple of years of experience, you should consider crossing the border. Find a head-hunter and go for it.

But remember, our money only has dead people on it, no colour, no
birds, no queen. And we still have 1 dollar bills. images/icons/wink.gif

I think therefore I am... sometimes right. images/icons/wink.gif

that's a good one!!!! lol

but we also have dead poeple on our money..... : (

to be honest i rarely see a dollard bill i play with plastic(cards) never cash

I'll be among the best soon, very soon!!!

Plastic? Oh yeah, we love plastic here!

What I should have added above is the only "Loonies" we have are in
Washington, DC.

I think therefore I am... sometimes right. images/icons/wink.gif

I envy Robby.

I am in Hartford, Connecticut, and my hourly rate is only a half.
In addition to that, I do not get contracts always. In average, 150 days annually.
Job agents know that I do not get many contracts, then offer me low rate.
It is me who accepts the rate they offer. So, by the Law, it is fair.

AnhMy_Tran

Remember, Robby is working in Canada, so $CDN75/hr is like $US50/hr....plus our taxes are typically higher.

"I have a plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel!" - Edmund Blackadder

Boy, does Bill know it. Our tax rate hear in QUEBEC (holding down my lunch) is 52%, So at the end of the day I take home $25 US per hour.

I'm not quite sure about your situation because you say you already have a job that pays you $30,000 a year and you've been there 3 months and your already up for review?

My advice is, if you're going to ask for a raise, I'd keep it in the 5% range, give or take a couple percent. At this point in your life, the experience that you'll get is a LOT more important than the extra money. Also, as you kinda mentioned, your boss has the advantage.

If he's asking you to suggest your new salary or the two of you are going to negotiate it, I'd ask for a 10% raise.

Otherwise, if you like your job, I'd keep my requests quite modest until you grow into the job a bit more.

Hi Mill, to reply to your post, i'm already up to my review. when to chose me for programming they wanted to give me 27K but i told then i'm not going under 30k so they gave it to me and told me i had two review in the following year one after 3 mounths and the other one after 1 year. so now i have my first 3 mounths done. i think asking for 10% should be OK that would give 3k more a year plus the experience....

I'll be among the best soon, very soon!!!

I guess I'd sit tight at your current salary for now. I'm not sure how it works there, but for the companies I've been with, after your initial offer/negotiation/acceptance, the ball is in the employer's court, and you have to take what they offer you, at least to some extent. If they want to keep you, they'll compensate you for your efforts.

My line of thinking is that if you keep asking for more money, management may start to wonder if they're going to keep having to increase your salary by X% every year, instead of the "standard" 5% or whatever. As a fairly new employee, I'd recommend that you let yourself grow into the job a bit, let the job grow to you, and then let the cards fall where they may.

"The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face." - Jack Handy

I'm currently working in Belgium for a yearly wage of about 25K a year, having 2 and a half years of experience in VB, SQL, COM etc ... I do get a company car to go with that, and all the gaz I need to fill it up, even in week-ends and holidays, so I'm not quite sure what that results in. Fact is, I've been looking for a job in the US for some time now, but I'm not quite eager to jump onto something not knowing what to expect from housing/social security/collegues and such. Maybe some of you could give me some useful tips ?

<font color=green>Do or do not
There is no try</font color=green>

I am working in the USA (SC) and not making very much money (25K). I have around 15 months experience with VB and have recently taken some more advanced VB classes. We only get reviewed once a year. After I had been here a year they said it wasn’t in the budget for any raises for salaried employees but if things looked better we might get a 3% increase next year. When I look at Salary Surveys on the Internet I get the feeling I should be making above 40K. I worry somewhat for us guys that start out with low salaries and we only get standard 5% raises we will never make more than if we didn’t learn these programming skills and took a job in factory. Especially considering the fact that we work overtime and don’t get paid for it. Also when talking to recruiters they usually ask what is your current salary. Should you be honest? I have always been honest about my salary but it seems they then think you should be willing to take any salary they offer. Maybe things we will be better when the economy picks up. I was happy to see someone else had questions on salaries. I’ve been feeling frustrated with money lately and this seemed like a good place to get it off my chest.

You have to take the cost of living where you are into consideration also. I started out making about what you're making, but I was in an area where I was only paying about $275 a month in rent. And I was doing a lot more besides programming - a lot of engineering functions as well. That was actually part of the reason I left that job, but the experience couldn't be replaced.

To be honest, I was cutting out job posting from newspapers in areas I wanted to move to for a while and sending out resumes and not getting anywhere. Then, I put my resume on a couple web pages and employers and head hunters were calling ME! It was a lot more productive for my time.

If you're not happy where you are, then you can think about jumping to a different company, but you have to consider how far you're willing to move (if you're still single and childless, this probably won't be as much of an issue), what kind of company you want to work for, if you'd be working as part of a team or not, etc.

Money can't buy happiness, but pats on the back and maybe next year's don't put your kids through college either. images/icons/laugh.gif

"The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face." - Jack Handy

I do not believe in Internet Salary Survey,

for it is very much higher than the result of the actual survey
I got from my friends and collegues.

They also see that my actual income is coparatively above
average in my area.

I keep wonder where does the Salary Survey get its data?

AnhMy_Tran

The Visual Basic Programmers Journal survey gets its data from people who answer their questionaires. But the problem with ANY voluntary survey is that it is non representative. In this case, people with lower salaries tend not to fill out the survey while the odd hotshot who started his own company does. If you check out the details of the survey, you will see that a few really highly paid programmers will totally skew the average.

A better survey would be to compare against the MEDIAN wage and to FORCE randomly selected programmers to provide data. Now obviously you can't force a programmer to do anything, let alone provide information like this, but maybe the IRS (or Revenue Canada) can publish survey data. After all, they know what you make and what you do. Plus, the people on THEIR survey will tend to minimize their wage, if anything... There may be privacy issues but if only the statistical data is made known, I can't see any obvious problems...



"I have a plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel!" - Edmund Blackadder

I am in the Los Angeles area, and a friend of mine owns a small software consulting company. He pays Novices $15/hour, Intermediates $35, and Advanced $50. All wages include benefits. Cost of living is extremely high here.

I second Bill Soo. NEVER EVER trust a salary survey. However, you can't even get the data from the IRS, because I am listed as a physicist (my main job). I only write vb apps 20-30% of my time. This is also why my salary is not listed here.

Go for the experience everytime.
I am working in England and am earning £40,000pa (don't know it in $, but sure someone will tell me) I don't just program I look after the whole I.T. interests for the company. It keeps it fresh as one day i'm programming the next i'm installing new hardware or cabling.

I can earn more elsewhere in the UK, but like says Bill the money is not everything. I live in a very rural part of England, (Dorset) and the quality of life means that I would rather take a pay cut and stay here than I would increase my pay and move back to the London area (left there about 9 years ago, and have never looked back).

Dazz

well i know i will get a raise... it was just how much... i just wanted to make sure i'm not getting fooled since i'm new on the "market", they will review my salary with me this week just can't wait... for the life quality i got it at home, my wife and my little girl gives me all a men could dream of... i'm already doing 180km just to go to work so if they try to fool me i'll just take my time to find something else and leave when i do find something

I'll be among the best soon, very soon!!!

I think the important thing to remember is that you have only been out of college for 3 months, so you need to look at your job as a stepping stone, if you feel like you are learning lots at the company where you work rather than doing mundane chores then stick with it, otherwise look for somewhere that you will learn more rather than earn more.

When you have more experience then you can go for the big jobs, I just saw one for £200k in London which I think is about CAN$450,000, but to get that you have to be good

as i said before i'm the only programmer here, so everything i learn (besides what i learned in college) is on this channel or in books... this job is a step foward of corse, but if they don't pay well why stay?? i could lear and earn more elswhere. if they pay well and maneage to give out side formations .....then i'll stay for sure.

I'll be among the best soon, very soon!!!

One problem with being the only programmer is that there is a limit to how much you can learn. On the other hand, you usually enjoy job security....

I would say that if you stay there, don't stay too long. 2 to 3 years should be enough.



"I have a plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel!" - Edmund Blackadder

that's what i had in mind, here in Montreal they all ask for someone with at least two year of experince

I'll be among the best soon, very soon!!!

I was actually in exactly the same position. I was the sole programmer (for software that we sold to outside customers), tech support, pseudo-network admin, all-around-computer-fixer-guy, etc...

And, as you and Bill both said, the amount that you can learn is somewhat limited. The good thing about it is that you can help build the company up if you really want to.

I stayed for about 2 1/2 years and then fled for higher ground.
images/icons/laugh.gif

"The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face." - Jack Handy

Thats quite good a discussion. And the best place for a reliable answer. I am a Visual Basic programmer with 4 years of total experience in IT. I program in VB, SQL in the company I work for. I make $42.00 an hour to my hands now and am going to become a salaried employee soon. How much do you think I should ask for my salary? The company seems to treat employees well. But you know its just an year since I moved to US and am really confused to ask how much salary. I am in the company for nearly 3 months now. I dont want to demand highly and get quit later as I want to stay here long, but I dont want to be fooled either asking a far less salary.
I appreciate any frank replied. Thanks

It partially depends on how good the "perks" (health insurance, profit
sharing, retirement, etc.) are. If the benefits aren't very good then you
should get quite a bit closer to the contract rate (not completely because
of employer matching FICA) but if the benefits are very good then they
could be counted for maybe as much as half your salary. I haven't worked
for anyone in a long time so maybe someone with real employee experience
will answer this better.

I think therefore I am... sometimes right. images/icons/wink.gif

Here is what you could get from Phoenix Arizona U.S.A

Fresh out of college = $35,000 +
2 years exp. = at least $60,000
5+ years = $75,000 to $90,000

If you have lots of exp. and know what you are doing, the sky is the limit. I know a few who make well over $100k and a couple who make even more.

The key is the ammount of years you have behind you and how diverse you are.

It would not hurt to take a class on C or Java or even some double E calsses (electrical engineering) to get more money.

Forget about money and get expierience. In a couple years you will never look back. If I had to I would intern for free just to get the expierience images/icons/smile.gif

JDT

I'd say a large factor is your location. If you're in a small town where the cost of living is pretty low, then I'd say that $42,000 is very fair. If you have to pay $1000/month for a small apartment, then it's probably a little low.

In any case, my recommendation to someone just starting out (either in the industry, in the country, or both) is to take the experience now, and the pay will follow. Especially now when the economy is pretty tight.

"The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face." - Jack Handy

well folks sometimes i just wonder what the hell am i doing in Canada. i'm discussing for the raise on monday or tuesday, i had my eval yesterday and it was extremely positive... just can't wait

I'll be among the best soon, very soon!!!

i finaly agreed for a 10 percent raise so i'm now at 33 000$/year witch i think is fair till next year

I'll be among the best soon, very soon!!!

Hey, good for you! Congratulations!

"The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face." - Jack Handy

thanks Mill, i appreciate all the coments that came out of this post, it helped a lot to deal with my boss : )

I'll be among the best soon, very soon!!!

After 3 months of school, fantastic. Glad to here. Where did you attend? Delta or Herzing.

I don’t like signed posts, why? We are so used to them that we ignore the last line of the post.

i went to delta college, but i did realy work hard like 6-7 hour a day more then school class time. i remember not sleeping much : )

I'll be among the best soon, very soon!!!

Following this thread I've decided to change jobs this week. Thanks to all contributors !

<font color=green>Do or do not
There is no try</font color=green>

why would you change job? where are u working now?

I'll be among the best soon, very soon!!!

Still working in Belgium, but I've got a raise of about 3000 US$ by changing my job ;)

<font color=green>Do or do not
There is no try</font color=green>

isn't programming amazing! still the same place, same skills and still get a raise of 3k!!

I'll be among the best soon, very soon!!!

In my area a programmer working in his position can apply for a job
with higher salary, and he may get hired, leaving his job in the dust.

If he is lucky, he may change job twice or thrwice a year, increasing
his salary at few thousands of dollars.

Most of the cases, programmers get fired, hoping to get the job at
lower salary. I do not have a good job. I work as a consultant, at
the rate as twice as my salary, but I have job 50% of my time. In
average, I do not make an income of the programmer at lower level.

AnhMy_Tran