Viewing the Sun by Handycam

Hi All!
Is it possible to view the sun by my Handicam (JVC). I mean, I can direct it towards the sun and view on the LCD. But I think it will be dangerous for the Handycam. So, can you genuinely tell me if it is possible (and safe) to view the sun this way so that neither me nor my Handycam are harmed.
On the 8th of June 2004, the planet Venus is going to pass from the front of Sun. In Delhi, this will be visible from 10 AM to 4 PM on 8th. A black dot will be visible passing from the lower part of sun (See attached picture). This phenomenon is taking place after 121 years. It last happened on 6th December 1882. I doubt if anyone who has seen it in 1882 and is living to see it in 2004 too. That was the principal reason I wanted to know about the Handycam thing.
Some other countries will be able to see it too. At least the whole of Asia, if I am not wrong.
OK, Please answer the Handycam question.

http://www.mreclipse.com/Special/filters.html - that, and you can also search google for 'solar eclipse viewing' (you'll get lots of hits and probably some places to buy filters, etc.)

Digital cameras dont have a shutter - they are always "open" - with that in mind I could see you easily "cooking" the light receptors if you pointed it directly at the mid-day sun for an extended period of time similar to focusing sunlight with a magnifying glass on a piece of wood for a long period of time.

However i'm pretty sure its ok to point it at the sun for a short period of time as I own a digital camera myself and nowhere in the references does it state not to point it at the sun.

The light sensors are usualy light sensitive diodes (but sometimes are metal oxide semiconductors) .. in either case they emit electrons when they detect a photon - light measured directly from the sun contains a LOT of photons and also contains UV rays which are more energetic than the photons of visible light - whats going to happen is that these things are going to warm up - precisely how much I cannot say - diodes can typically handle extreme temperature variations so maybe there is nothing to worry about

But at the other end, these diodes are going to be producing a LOT of electrons - these electrons are carried through some sort of conductor (probably a lead on a circuit board) to a processor of some kind which will contruct the image data out of all its inputs - the thing about conductors is that they all resist the flow of electrons to some degree and create heat in the process.

I'd suspect they used the cheapest material they could get away with to create these leads between the diodes and the processor and that they may not be able to handle the heat that could be generated for an extended 'look-see' directly at the sun.

The other problem is that you might not be able to see venus anyway....it could be "washed out" by the background illumination of the sun if you view it directly. A filter would probably reduce the intensity levels to where an object like venus becomes visible.

I own a digital camera myself and nowhere in the references does it state not to point it at the sun.
Now, now, Rockoon, act smarter... Just because anything isnt mentioned in the manual does not mean it can be done. Nobody says that you dont jump into a well, so that doesn't imply that you jump in anyway.

Well, but you have justified the cause! I was not serious.

You might not be able to see Venus anyway
Well, I thought the same, but I read the whole thing in a magazine and it mentions that it will be visible. So lets wait and watch.

By the way, I had thought there would be a lot of interest on the Venus thing, but maybe I was wrong. Is nobody interested in this celestial event?

i'm interested, would be nice to see it... but is the "dot" really going to be this big?

To clarify....

A CCD is an array of pixel elements. Each element measures a light intensity level (probably in several colours). The *range* of sensing is probably fixed. Meaning that, say, a bare lightbulb and the sun will both probably max out the sensor so they appear the same intensity, even though the sun is several times brighter. If so, then it's likely that intense radiation from the sun will max out every pixel element in the CCD, even the ones focused on venus. This would mean that all you would see is a white screen.

A filter would reduce the incoming radiation to the "normal" range of the CCD. This would allow you to see venus.

BTW: Venus will apparently be about 1/32 the size of the sun.

Which filter??? I have no idea

If you went to your local Camera store (I mean a real camera store not a big retailer) they will probably be able to help you with the filter that you need.

Just a thought :)

Will it be costly?
:confused:

the film shouldn't be more than a few dollars; you could just tape half a pair of eclipse viewing glasses over the lens.

You could also make a pinhole projector (http://home.houston.rr.com/molerat/eclipse.htm), using a cardboard box, a piece of foil, and a piece of heavy, smooth white paper.

You would then take pics of the projected image of the sun.

Cool,thanks for the ideas loquin.
But my basic question remains un-answered.
I wanted to know if it will harm my handycan if i use it to view the sun without any filter or any thing at all.

you were answered several times. if you want professional advice,
i suggest you to go to where you bought the camera and ask there.
or just play it safe and buy the filter anyway.
it would be less expansive than buying a new camera...

If you ZOOM on the sun, then yes, you will probably burn out your CCD...many cameras have 20x optical zoom!

If you do NOT zoom on the sun, then it depends. My camera has a lens 25mm across. That's nearly 5 sq cm. The CCD is probably a lot smaller than this...a CCD can be only 6mm square, but you may have several of these chips making up the focal plane. So for sake of example, let's say that the total CCD area is 1 sq cm.

If we assume that all the light falling on the lens is focused on the CCD, then that means that the intensity of light will be 5x greater on the CCD. This is roughly equivalent to using a standard 3" magnifying glass to focus the energy of the sun on a spot 1.5" across. If you try this on your hand, it will feel a bit warm, but not painfully so. So based on this, I would say that it would be hard to physically damage the CCD in this way.

A lot depends upon the relative sizes of your CCD and lens. The larger the CCD, the more likely it will survive.

One thing that I've found works really well as a direct viewing medium is the disc section of a 1.44 floppy! We used them to watch the solar eclipse a couple of years back.

I think I wil drop thecamera idea.
FLOPPY ????

YES!!!

Errr...

Just before you do try that, bear in mind that this was with an eclipse - if you're looking directly at the sun, I would recommend using several discs first, and gradually take one away...

THIS MESSAGE COMES WITH A PUBLIC HEALTH WARNING: LOOKING DIRECTLY AT THE SUN CAN BE BL**DY STUPID, SO ONLY DO IT IF YOU'RE PROPERLY QUALIFIED!

Turn the camera around, and let the sun watch you!

Don't suggest that! We don't want to scare it away :p

Well, OK OK. Pin hole camera is the best get!!! WOOO Mandelbrot gave me th creeps.

Don't suggest that! We don't want to scare it away

If you dont scare the sun, your avatar will, Banjo

I remember this exchange from a comic book I read decades ago. Tubby's pal Iggy (in the *Little Lulu* book) says "They say you can tell time by looking at the sun . . . arrggh, I don't see how you can look at it long enough to read the hands!"

With a PIN HOLE CAMERA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you ZOOM on the sun, then yes, you will probably burn out your CCD...many cameras have 20x optical zoom!

If you do NOT zoom on the sun, then it depends. My camera has a lens 25mm across. That's nearly 5 sq cm. The CCD is probably a lot smaller than this...a CCD can be only 6mm square, but you may have several of these chips making up the focal plane. So for sake of example, let's say that the total CCD area is 1 sq cm.

If we assume that all the light falling on the lens is focused on the CCD, then that means that the intensity of light will be 5x greater on the CCD. This is roughly equivalent to using a standard 3" magnifying glass to focus the energy of the sun on a spot 1.5" across. If you try this on your hand, it will feel a bit warm, but not painfully so. So based on this, I would say that it would be hard to physically damage the CCD in this way.

A lot depends upon the relative sizes of your CCD and lens. The larger the CCD, the more likely it will survive.

However, if there is any speck of dust or imperfection within the lens, (and the lenses are typically multi-element) depending upon the placement of the dust/imperfection, IT can be in a area where the sunlight is highly concentrated, and that can generate enough heat to damage or crack the lens.

Hmmm.....good point Lou.

The regular sun is just as intense as a solar eclipse. This is what confuses some people and leads them to look at a solar eclipse with the naked eye. The difference is that if you look at an eclipse, you can damage a small part of your retina whereas if you look at the sun, you can damage a much larger area. Therefore, if a filter can protect you from an eclipse, it can protect you from the sun as well.

As for pinhole cameras....I don't know about you but when I tried it, the image was so tiny I could see no useful details. Possibly this was because it was only a *partial* eclipse I was looking at....the ambient light washed out any fine details on the image, but the image itself was rather small. I had a bit more luck using a large magnifying glass to focus an image on the paper instead.

It's safe if you only look at night.

Pinhole camera-Small image
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