Software Developers, Demand, Salary...

Hi,

With the arrival of Visual Studio.NET a few weeks away, I have a very important question.

What areas within the software development industry are of high demand?

I am currently a Visual Basic Developer working within London (UK). I am only 17 years old, and I wish to move into a very technical area of programming i.e. C++, Visual C++, COM/ATL, C++ Databases.

What technologies are highly in demand?

Should I move into C++ if I wish to be in a more technical area or should I go with the rest and move with the new upcoming VB.NET?

I know most of you MAY say I should go with VB.NET, but I have just realised the large demand for C++ Application Developers, far more money to be earned as a C++, Visual C++ Developer than Visual Basic.

Please leave all comments and advise. Thank you very much...
VD

What technologies are highly in demand?


Network Programming, so I've been told. There's also a lot of money in the art of understanding hardware (if you want to get away from programming). Of course, you probably shouldn't go on my judgement (seeing as how I'm 3 years younger than you), but I've also been told that C++ database programming is also valuable. Quite a few companies and web sites use Oracle, D-Base, and Access for storing data, so I'm sure there are lots of jobs there.

go with the rest and move with the new upcoming VB.NET

"go with the rest..." ????

Not everyone is moving to VB.NET. I have plans to avoid XP and .NET as much as possible. Personally, I'm going to use VB6 for as long as it will last, then move on to regular C++.

Yes, you are right, there are a lot more jobs in C++ than VB, and for good reason. VB is poweful, but C/C++ is more capable of faster, smaller, and more cross-platform applications.

Originally posted by orufet
VB is poweful, but C/C++ is more capable of faster, smaller, and more cross-platform applications.

If you call VB powerful than C/C++ to be exact Visual C++ is even mightier!

Visual C++ can do much more than just be faster, smaller ...
I wouldn't call Visual C++ cross platform capable, though (it uses the MFC mainly :))

Real powerful under Win is, of course, API programming ... as I found out, that many things in VB require "work arounds" with API :)

1st of all learn C/C++.. most of the higher languages base on it :)
Other than that I would recommend theese languges:

- PHP
- Java
- SQL (pl/sql from oracle maybe?:)

A sure thing is that e-business apps with database access will sell in the future :)

If you call VB powerful than C/C++ to be exact Visual C++ is even mightier!

Visual C++ can do much more than just be faster, smaller ...
I wouldn't call Visual C++ cross platform capable, though (it uses the MFC mainly )


I think you misread my post....

I never said anything about Visual C++. Visual C++ is a great development environment for Windows. The language C++ can be used on any operating system, as far as I know. Yes, it has to be recompiled, but you can still use the same code. I never said VC++ was cross-platform; it's not. Also, VB is less powerful than VC++, but easier and quicker.

Originally posted by orufet
I think you misread my post....
I just used your post to reply to and have a start for writting ;)
I guess I mixed up a thing or two ;) sorry for 'bout that... kinda tired now (its 2 am here) :D

Originally posted by orufet
I never said anything about Visual C++. Visual C++ is a great development environment for Windows. The language C++ can be used on any operating system, as far as I know. Yes, it has to be recompiled, but you can still use the same code. I never said VC++ was cross-platform; it's not. Also, VB is less powerful than VC++, but easier and quicker.
Absoultely right :)

Orufet said:
I have plans to avoid XP and .NET as much as possible

Orufet, I agree 100%, that's exactly my plan.

What will I use in the future? I don't know ....:eek:

I don't have a problem with XP, but I don't like the whole .NET thing ether... goes into the wrong direction if you ask me..

The wrong direction? You said one of the good things about C/C++ development is that it can easily be cross-platform! Explain yourself!

Any serious programmer is going to be doing themselves an injustice if they don't do some .NET programming to familiarise themselves with it. Or at least do some research in to it.

Any serious programmer....

ROFL!

1) I just started high school. Serious?
2) There are LOTS of things that "serious programmers" can do without .NET. Yes, it may become the main focus of new programming, but it will be a minority for a while. There are lots of competitors such as Borland, Sun, etc that will thrive as they always have. There are too many languages .NET doesn't cover. If, one day, Windows programming is ruled by .NET (rofl), I will just skim on over to Linux or Unix. Still lots to do there!

When I said Serious Programmer, I was referring to those of us to whom programming is a career. We can't always use Linux as an excuse to avoid something to do with Windows.

You have to remember that .NET does not make VB obsolete, think how old C/C++ are, and how mainstream they still are. In my opinion, .NET is just another language system which has been produced. Some may use it, some may not. I wouldnt consider myself a serious programmer, I laugh too much (so does orufet it seems ;)), but Im still interested in things like this, if nothing other than to broaden my programming skills.

I'd love to learn .NET, but have neither the time nor the patience, plus I am trying my best to learn C++ and Pascal (dont ask, college thing) at the same time...... :(

Given the chance, I'd learn .NET, but VB is by no means dead, even old VB5..... heh :p

I don't know what classified section the guy that said there are far more c++ jobs than vb jobs is looking at, but it's not in a paper where I live. I bet it's 4 to 1 VB vs C jobs in the paper here. And most of them pay just as well if not better. I don't claim that this is fair... just seems to be the way it is.

Major corporations, the ones who do utilize C/C++, tend not to request work in your local newspaper.
More often it's the smaller companies who are looking for Visual Basic programmers, as they can, in most cases, produce results faster and cheaper.
C/C++ is in demand, you're just not going to find offers from your local "Mom & Pop" store.

Regards,
-cl

So larger companies can't produce results faster and cheaper with VB? That's a fascinating conclusion.

You really can't pigeonhole an industry like this.

At the small company I work for, the majority of our software was done in C until recently. We've only been doing VB development extensively for about the last two years; whereas, I have friends in large companies that have been doing a lot of their development using VB for quite some time.

And my reference to the "local classifieds" was a figure of speech.

A while back, when I was perusing the job market so to speak, almost all the jobs the headhunters were sending me on interviews for were VB jobs, even though I have far more C experience on my resume. And no, these weren't "Mom and Pop" places, unless you consider companies like FedEx Mom and Pop.

For what it's worth.......

hey reboot we don't all live in Graceland with you and Elvis :rolleyes:

over here in the UK C++ is definately more in demand and higher paid its all supply and demand at the end of the day, 12 months ago Java was the thing, now everyone has learn't it and the wages have averaged out

*shrug*

20 years ago, maybe even 10 years ago, I suppose it's possible you could classify programmers as 'c programmers' and 'vb programmers' and 'cobol programmers'. It's not often that way anymore. Most of the people I know in the industry use 2 or 3 or sometimes more languages. And most of the shops now do also. And these shops don't seem very willing anymore to put up with the kind of person that says "I'm a c coder and I won't touch anything else." Like I said before, I personally don't find it quite fair when a vb programmer makes more than a c programmer (I can't speak for the UK, but it often happens here in the States), but the c programmers have in many cases brought this on themselves. Why should I pay someone more to write c code when I can have it done in VB, charge the customer less, and still make more money? This doesn't always apply of course, sometimes vb just isn't fast enough, or small enough. But more and more now, vb does quite well enough that you can't cost justfy something else. Especially in the realm of custom software.

Please don't get me wrong. I started programming in c in the mid-80s. I love it. But... I make the same amount no matter which I use... and if VB is the appropriate choice, I generally make more per hour with it.

Once again, my humble, if not necessarily wanted, opinions.

p.s.
AD1. ok, ok, so I don't really live in Graceland. But I do pass it twice a day. I'll be glad to say Hi to Elvis for you if you like. :)

You couldn't code Quake4 in VB ...
Just a thought ;)

Actually, with a lot of VB knowledge, a lot of DirectX knowledge and a LOT of patience, it's quite possible to do something like that in VB. :)

Not that anyone would really want to....

Originally posted by VolteFace
Actually, with a lot of VB knowledge, a lot of DirectX knowledge and a LOT of patience, it's quite possible to do something like that in VB. :)

Not that anyone would really want to....

Maybe it's possible... but it would be useless cause it would be too slow :)
C++ and some inline assembler is more useful here, i guess ;)

Every language has it's own areas of application... Everything else has been said before...

After looking into VB I don't know why anyone would code a wizzard or a small programm for one task or something that has to be done quick in VC :)
VC is far more complicated than VB...

Just look over at the java ides .. they're all coded purely in JAVA and are SLOW like hell...
Even a VB Ide would be faster but I guess written in VC++ it would be the best solution ;)

I wasn't talking about games. Games (PC games anyway) are probably 0.1% of the software industry. Who cares if VB will do games as well as c and/or asm?

Originally posted by reboot
I wasn't talking about games. Games (PC games anyway) are probably 0.1% of the software industry. Who cares if VB will do games as well as c and/or asm?
It was just a thought and not directed to you...

And oh yes I CARE :D

But I guess / hope its more than 0.1 % ...

I'de have to agree with reboot on this...

My clients don't care and don't even know what I develop in.

As far as the job market goes... I've followed Monster.ca ( job
search engine counterpart to Monster.com) on and off for a
couple of years and I would say I've seen more oppertunities for VB.

It's all about choosing the right solution for a given situation.
The language you use, the platform you choose, the database you use, it all has to do with for who you are developing, what it needs to do etc etc.

Being a good programmer has nothing to do with understanding one language very good, it has more to do with how you deal with all kind of different scenarios.

ust to complete on ArnoutVs comment

Being a good programmer has nothing to do with understanding one language very good, it has more to do with how you deal with all kind of different scenarios

i would also add that you need to be a bit analyst as well, you need to detect the needs, propose a few solutions and adapt most of your stuff to the clients environment

sorry i had to put my 2 cents

Originally posted by ArnoutV
[B]It's all about choosing the right solution for a given situation.
The language you use, the platform you choose, the database you use, it all has to do with for who you are developing, what it needs to do etc etc.
amen :)
Originally posted by ArnoutV
[B]Being a good programmer has nothing to do with understanding one language very good
Well you should know what you're doing, shouldn't you? If you mean someone shouldn't focus on just ONE language, agreed ;)

Originally posted by Laurent
i would also add that you need to be a bit analyst as well, you need to detect the needs, propose a few solutions and adapt most of your stuff to the clients environment
That goes a bit beyond the job of a simple programmer... if you can do that, you should earn even more :D

Dont be sorry Laurent, although I did think that special people were employed to do things like that and then pass the requirements on to the programmers. *shrug*

Originally posted by Squirm
Dont be sorry Laurent, although I did think that special people were employed to do things like that and then pass the requirements on to the programmers. *shrug*
I believe theese people are called system analysts and earn the big $ :)

I've known quite a few "system analysts" that couldn't program their way out of a paper bag. And there are a lot of programmers out there that can design AND code (they often exist in organizations with titles such as "Lead Programmer" and "Senior Programmer"). Which one would you rather pay..... ?

Same with many DBA's....

well where i'm working at the moment is a small plant where i'm the only programmer so i need the analyst part as wel as the programmer part. Of corse you could earn a lot more since you have more knowledge and experience but most of all the little side line you can get are a lot easyer to accomplish in short period of time