Selfish Members

I have been a member of this board for a while now. During that time I have learned more about vb than from any book. This has been a result of 4 things
1: asking questions and getting answers from other members
2: searching through previous threads for answers
3: general reading
and
4: looking at other people's questions and trying to find the answer myself.

Today a member asked a question about indexes on database tables. I gave an incorrect answer and the member queried the answer and then I corrected my answer and that was that.
During all that time both I and that member were on the forum. After I corrected the answer the member left without responding.
Out of curiousity I looked up this member's previous postings, more than 400.
I went through a lot of these, all were questions apart from just 2 thank yous.
So this person doesn't seem to understand the concept of give and take.

I don't know a whole lot about vb. However if someone asks a question that I feel I can help on then I am delighted to show off what I've learnt. Equally if someone helps me I always acknowledge that help.

However members who ask lots of questions, rarely say thank you and never help others really make me fed up.
About the only thing you can say for them is that they ask questions that provoke answers of benefit to other members.
On the other hand the lack of response of any sort doesn't exactly make me keen to respond to future queries from this individual.

I may miss a couple of times but I make a point to say thanks most of the time.

I may miss a couple of times but I make a point to say thanks most of the time.

Thanks for the reply Abdhul ;)

Unfortunately this is just one example of poor human behaviour. It's far easier to be rude and inconsiderate and humans are by nature lazy. Civilisation eases the problem but there are a significant number of people who have no interest in being civil.

Welcome to the real world :-/

No prob.

However members who ask lots of questions, rarely say thank you and never help others really make me fed up.

Well, I knew someone at school who took up this huge VB database project even though he had no experience with databases, VB or any other type of programming (who knows why?).

He ended up taking up a lot of classroom time asking question after question. Then after class the teacher had to spend a lot of time tutoring this guy as well as trying to help him move his project forward. But this wasn't enough and soon he was asking just about every student in class to look at his code and figure out what he was doing wrong. I looked at his code and couldn't make heads or tails of it. Their were 200 syntax errors on his main form alone and he had over a dozen modules with code he had obviously pasted in from several different sources that I had no idea what he was trying to do with (many many functions, declarations, and Public Subs that weren't even being called/used).

The thought of this guy trying to help anyone else with VB programming would make me cringe. He flunked his final VB exam, got a D on his database project, and ended up with D minus for a final grade (barely above failing). However, the guy was exceptionally polite, always thanked people for all their help, and gave full credit in his project's presentation to everyone who had tried to help him.

So I guess all I can say is that there will always be the type who has to ask a lot of questions (and never quite "gets it' to where he/she feels comfortable helping anyone else), but for such people there wouldn't seem to be any reason they can't at least reply with a few thank yous every once in a while...however, personally, I NEVER expect to be thanked.
But it's nice to know a a bit of code resolved the problem for when the thread gets archived...

I always try to keep my expectatations for other people quite low so I avoid being disappointed. I find it generally works out better that way..

Yeah, I've got 3 or 4 open questions that I wish had been answered but sometimes one must find the answers themselves. I have a feeling at least one of them is beyond the limits of VB itself.

When I'm in a bad mood I refuse to answer a post if I can open the .NET SDK Documentation, type in a single word from the user's post, and find the exact function they have "searched for hours" to find. I think that bothers me more than someone that asks questions over and over and never answers a question.

I recognize one or two posters that asked questions constantly when I joined who are now answering them. Sometimes it takes a while for people to get started.

It actually doesn't really bother me when someone posts a wrong reply, either, because I usually point out why their method is wrong as well. I think the only time it bothers me is when someone posts VB6 answers in the .NET forum LOL.

But I've always felt like there's some kind of karma on the forum. Somehow, it seems that people who take but never give back have a harder time getting good answers to their posts.

*edit* OK, so I screwed up the structure of this post and didn't address the topic until later. It's all good.

pikzel_r:
As you noted, that type of person is a completely different animal. Their problem is more that they are trying to move too fast (school project are notorious for producing this effect). They don't "get it" because they're trying to ingest too much information at once and it becomes overwhelming. When you start adding in deadlines it just makes it worse.

I agree, Gardener. I have no problem at all with the people who ask and don't answer, but it is frustrating when someone gets help and doesn't acknowledge it, or asks for help without expending any effort on their own first (as AtmaWeapon suggested about the .NET SDK documentation). Still, that's the way some people are. Fortunately, there are enough people who are courteous and have a genuine desire to learn rather than just looking for handouts, to keep this an enjoyable and thriving place. :)

As lebb said, it just doesn't bother me that much. When I first started answering questions a little less than two years ago (this was past my newbie stage - but I still can't believe it's been almost two years!) it bothered me, but after a while, I just stopped "begging" for thank-yous (and I seem to be getting more now than I used to - odd...)

It's the shades.

I wear them to protect me from the computer's UV rays. :p

And to protect you from the 3 stooges, 2 finger...ah they do work for that! Dang...

Anyhow, back to the original post. I have asked a lot of questions here, and sometimes, I admit (as I always do when I am wrong) I don't always say thanks. I am sorry for this, and I would like to take this time to properly thank everyone who has ever helped me here that I did not thank at the time I recieved help.
However, I have also answered as many questions as I possibly can, many times without a thanks either. It does not bother me if I do not recieve a thanks, because if the thread stops shortly after I post, most likely that means I helped.
Also, another reason I think some people don't say thanks is, in the posting guidlines, it says not to post un-nessesary posts, with the exception of in RT. I thnk some people take this a bit far, and this could explain a few missed thank you's.
As said before, if someone asks and asks, but never answers, maby they feel uncomfortable answering dou to the fact, they feel if they answer it might not be helpful, or could be wrong. Why would they post if they are uncomfortable posting? If a user is unable to help others, due to a lack of experience, there is no harm/no foul there. :)

Ya just can't sweat the small stuff. Just 2 more pennies from me. ;)

Sometimes we answer and help and advise endlessly and don't get a word of thanks for it... But then occasionally a "Thanks guys, you rock, you just saved my life - this is the best site ever!" comes along and makes you smile. To me, one of those makes up for dozens of ungrateful barbarians. :)

Somehow, it seems that people who take but never give back have a harder time getting good answers to their posts.Absolutely. There are people whose threads I specifically avoid answering, and I doubt I'm the only one. Because I know that whatever I give them, they will only complain that it didn't completely solve their problem, and ask for more, with no thanks. After a while one learns to stay away from those.

I also find this annoying. You've gone to all the effort of helping someone out, pasted links and code you've found and that's it. You never hear from them again!

Irritating, but natural human behaviour. You can't teach an old dog new tricks :(

Sometimes we answer and help and advise endlessly and don't get a word of thanks for it... But then occasionally a "Thanks guys, you rock, you just saved my life - this is the best site ever!" comes along and makes you smile. To me, one of those makes up for dozens of ungrateful barbarians
I so 100% agree :)
One must also remember that in the form of text, you are very easily misunderstood; I can say this due to the amount of time spent on instant messaging. And this place is filled with people, the native language of which isn't english, which might then make expressing your ideas harder/impossible. A certain amount of perseverance is needed from the people who try to help. :)
I think this forum is perfect, because wether you ask/answer, you always tend to learn new stuff. :p I love it :)

I am agree too with Gardener.

Herilane, if anytime I forgot you to say to you or the another thanks,I said it now.

All you people (not only the admins, and leaders) treat me very good and I have learned much on this forum, and i am not talking only to code.

:) All you people rocks!

Thanks to everyone too who i did not mention 'thanks' to at the time

On the main topic, it shocks me to see all of this
I consider myself to be a beginner-intermediate at VB, and yes, i think i do ask for help a bit, but i think its ok for almost everyone as long as you do your share of research before posting here (like surfing the net for ideas, snippets, search the forum)



on the second half, i almost always see similar people helping me on this forum.. I think the idea of a forum is you can take but at least give

i dont think that many people actually get onto the forums and help
many ppl just seem to ONLY come on for help

I’m not necessarily interested in a “thanks” as much as knowing if the answer resolved the problem. Sometimes I may read a post "too fast", or don’t have the capacity to test my code. Plus you do have the language barrier to consider. I wouldn't let a lack of response prevent me from answering a question to an individual though. Keep in mind, the next guy/gal who comes a long, searches for their problem, could find that question and your answer. After all, (at least to me) that's what it's all about... :)

I think all of us as "first-time forumers" were hooked on that buzz of being appreciated by virtue of "thanks". Once you get used to the idea that these are rarer than not, you start to find that the long-term benefits of participation here are more tangible.

The variety of people and situtations here, means that lots of scenarios are presented to you without actually having to be involved in more than just the interesting bits! Like they say - there's no substitue for experience :)

I'm like Jay, mostly I want to know whether or not the question is resolved. Thanks are great and I've found people tend to give them more when the tone of your post is as if you are talking to a friend.

Or maybe, everyone was saying "thank you" because my signature said:
Say "Thank You" or I'll Ban You!
Maybe, just maybe...nah, it's cause my avatar is cute and lovable! ;)

Hi Wamphyri


Maybe, just maybe...nah, it's cause my avatar is cute and lovable!


Maybe it's cos my monitor is not very good of I a m losing my sight. But i swear you that is not the first time since the I saw it that I spent at least five minutes at day looking your avathar ...

Excuse me but I'm intrigated. What is?

Probably like most of us, I joined the forum because I needed help. And oh, did I get it! I really learned a lot more on the forum than in class (only a few days of VBA training).

First I didn't dare to answer questions, because I was only a newbie. So my first answers included code I used myself, based on your answers. To make sure that no one got offended I also mentioned the person who came up with the original idea. That worked for me.

I completely agree that it's nice to know whether or not a problem is solved. Somehow you keep thinking when you don't get a final "It works!"... (At least I do.)

Oh well, thanks again to everyone I haven't thanked in my posts. All the "selfish" coders will learn to be polite some day, when they really need answers. As long as we show them (or tell them, in some cases) how to act.

Now, I'm going for my friday afternoon drink. Nice weekend to you all.

Hi Wamphyri



Maybe it's cos my monitor is not very good of I a m losing my sight. But i swear you that is not the first time since the I saw it that I spent at least five minutes at day looking your avathar ...

Excuse me but I'm intrigated. What is?
I believe it's an adorable little undead mutant vampire bunny. :p

"Thank You's" are a polite courtesy in my opinion.

Closure of a thread on the other hand is specifically stated in the Posting Guidelines (http://www.xtremevbtalk.com/faq.php?faq=evbf_faq#faq_evbf_rules). To quote Item #16:

If you have posted a question, and your problem has been solved either by another poster, or on your own, then please post a message saying that the issue has been resolved.

This to me has way more importance than a polite "Thank You". It tells people that they don't, if they don't want to, have to exhibit any more effort concerning that thread and can move on to focus on those that have not been resolved.

I guess I never noticed when someone didn't say thank you.
I tend to enjoy working out problems with others (paticularly if they've been making an effort themselves) because there seems to be something new to learn or refresh on every time.

Either way, both parties stand to benefit from the participation; with code hand-outs being the exception of course.

This appears to be a good time to say this:
I am endebted to this forum. I hope that I have thanked the members who have aided me appropriatly. Paranoia that I might not have leads me to post :p

I agree that a "Thank You" or "Problem Solved" is greatly appriciated and in many respects rightfully expected. As a newbie moving towards intermediate programmer I have found myself feeling more comfortable answering questions, and often times it would be nice to know if a solution offered was the one that worked.

I may have at times not posted a "Thank You" for fear of being accused of padding my post count, but abandoned that thinking.

I have been programming now for almost 2 years, while I intend on taking a VB class at the local Community Collage, I know that it is the members of this site that have allowed me to continue with my "late-in-life" career change, and for that I am truly grateful.

Thanks for the thread 00100b, it has helped remind me of common curtesy's I may not always remember in Cyber-Space.

Bart

Hi Wamphyri
Maybe it's cos my monitor is not very good of I a m losing my sight. But i swear you that is not the first time since the I saw it that I spent at least five minutes at day looking your avathar ...

Excuse me but I'm intrigated. What is?
It was originally my easter avatar, but I got numerous posts and PM's about it that I decided to keep it on as my regular one. It is a picture of a friend's bunny. I replaced the rabbit's head with a Wamphyri's skull (from the cover of Brian Lumley's Novel Necroscope II: Wamphyri (http://www.brianlumley.com/books/necroscope/uknecroscope.html)) Just wait for the Oct. 31 avatar!

From time to time (if no 'thanks' or somehitng similar to 'problem solved' has been said in return to your efforts) I feel that people think you're obliged to be here like that usher opening the door...This beats me.
But I have a feeling they're in minority which is good.

... it is frustrating when someone gets help and doesn't acknowledge it


Notice I give credit for my avatar :D

Oh, and I don't expect thank yous because I am usually wrong :)

HardCode, what a great idea. Hope you don't mind if I copy you. :)

I think my biggest pet peeve is people who act like this forum is a service they pay for and we are required to help, like what Shurik12 said. Often I see posts that go like:

10:00AM "I have a form with a button, and I want the code to push the button. How do I do this"
10:05AM "bump, I need to know fast"
10:10AM "bump, Does anyone know?"
10:15AM "Worst. Forum. Ever. You guys are jerks :mad:"

These people need to realize that Forum <> Chat Room. Posts like this get a sneer on my face and a non-hyperlinked URL to the MSDN article on the subject from me.

I agree with many previous posters, the "Thanks" is important to me not because it makes me feel good, but because I like to know that my code works. For database and GDI things, I very rarely take the time to go test my examples, so it's good to know that I did it right.

Asking for favors politely and expressing thanks are social skills without which nobody should be promoted from First Grade! Alas, if someone didn't learn these from his or her parents, there's not much that we can do for them at this late date. :(

Thanks both to Wamphyri and lebb ;)

I will wait patienly for your new avathar

Uh oh Reboot, now everyone is going to attack lebb fer an avatar :huh:

Don't worry, I don't do rhinestones for just anyone. ;)

Others on this thread have expressed sentiments that suggest that they have a very altruistic nature and help others without question. I admire that sort of nature.
I could never be like that and actually I don't even think I'd like to be like that, I think I'd feel a bit of a mug.
I suppose I am quite selfish myself and if I go to the trouble of helping someone else then I **** well want a bit of gratitude in return.
:)

Nothing wrong with wanting gratitude, or at the very least, acknowledgement in return Gardener. There's nothing wrong with it at all.

Expecting it however, is merely setting yourself up to be disappointed more often than not.

There's a quote posted around here at the office...

A person's character can be judged based on how they treat those that can do them absolutely no good.

That's posted in one of the vending machine areas.

On my desk, however, is a gift from my boss. A little poster, presumably from a calendar:

Attitudes are contagious. Mine might kill you.

;)

I so 100% agree :)
One must also remember that in the form of text, you are very easily misunderstood; I can say this due to the amount of time spent on instant messaging. And this place is filled with people, the native language of which isn't english, which might then make expressing your ideas harder/impossible. A certain amount of perseverance is needed from the people who try to help. :)
I think this forum is perfect, because wether you ask/answer, you always tend to learn new stuff. :p I love it :)
In my experience, in face to face conversations, foreigners are usually much more courteous than they need to be. I know that if I'm abroad I tend to make that extra effort not to offend.
Besides, the words needed to say thankyou are usually well known (or easy to find) and simple to use so the language barrier is not an issue in the same way it is when trying to explain a problem.

What is more likely the problem, in my opinion, is that in text form you are more disconnected from the people you are talking to and given that, certain people forget the little things that allow people to deal with each other in a pleasant manner. It's laziness, nothing more.

I just remembered another type of post that bothers me: when people ignore your responses.

Usually, this happens because someone wants the code spoon-fed to them. When there are two replies, and one has code, it doesn't matter if the second post starts with a big flashing "THE ABOVE POST IS INCORRECT HERE IS WHY AND HOW TO FIX IT", more than half the time the original poster's response is "I tried your code but it didn't work for some reason :confused:".

There have been a few cases over the past week or so where someone posted code that was only incorrect by one line, so all I did was post "Close, but delete the line/add a line that says <whatever> and it should work.", only to see "It didn't work" as a response.

It doesn't happen often, but there was one thread in particular that dragged on longer than it should have because the poster ignored 3 different people who were suggesting the same thing to him. It makes no sense to me, you come here to ask questions, why would you ignore people who post answers?

I'm afraid to find out what Mr. Dead-Bunny-Mutant's All Hallow's Eve avatar is... Oh, and I should thank lebb for showing me the site where I created mine, so I've added that to my sig. :p

Like several others before me, I must take this chance to say I frequently ask questions, and rarely thank people. There is no excuse and I am sorry for that. With regards to helping others, I do whenever I can, but I always predict, correctly I might add, that within 30 minutes of any suggestion I put forward, someone else comes along with, "That would work, but this would be better......" This doesn't bother me, I just know that my knowledge base simply isn't good enough to help others. I have a very specific skill with coding, which is to achieve the result I want with simple code, and lots of workarounds. I know this is not good practice, but as I am not a programmer by profession or major, my style suits my needs. Anyway, I am grateful for all the help I receive, and I will try to be better at thanking in future.

I don't mind when people don't say thank you for any given help, but it's a lot nicer when they do :)

I think, in the end, the only thing that matters it that, like someone said, the one who asks questions puts also some effort to what he/she is asking, I mean in the last week of my serious try-to-participate efficiently thing, I've seen at least 5 posts of the same nature, so that some of them are even on the same page... That really ****es me off. To those that read well what people might say and then do all the nessecary research available: I will continue to put my efforts on answering to you!

(This thread might just result in the cataclysmic revival of all the Non-thanked messages ever :chuckle:)

Cheers!