Easy_Rider

I think gaming programing is the hardest thing to do. I think some games are works of art that should be put in the same category as the 7th art... THE 8th art! Econmy Nobel price winers last year created a 'game' simulating real consumer behaviour. they had these guys in a room buying and selling stocks and then induced penalties and rewards acording to their behaviour. Ridiculous. If Nobel Prize awarders would simply take a look at The Sims engine runing on-line with real people all over the world they would see a much more perfect and advanced simulation of consumer/human behaviour. The Sims creators should have won the Nobel for Economy!

I'm a newbie at programing in VB aldo I remember programing a simple game a few years ago in Pascal. The thing that amazed the most was... how slow it ran, comparing to professional games with much more elaborated graphics. And I was shure I was stretching Pascal as far as I could. The problem was in my basic iteration algorithms wich where ineficient
Reading the thread about that extreme forum game (wich now seems to be kind of frozen) I noticed many users complained about how slow the game was.
A modern game has something like at least 30 people specialized in their fields (sound, graphics, modeling, storyline, coding, etc..) and some, like Solid Metal Gear 2 have something like 200 people working on it for a full year...

I'm prety shure you all desing your games for fun, since it's obviously impossible to compete with these software houses... but that can change soon.
I work in a Telecom Regulatory agency and I follow very close the evolution of mobile comunications. I think GAMES will be the killer aplication for mobile phones. We saw in these last years old games being re-edited for small celular phones. Simple games like Pac Man are still to heavy to run on most mobile phones. But the time will come where games that can be played via UMTS (3rd generation mobile) terminals over the internet, with a relatively narrow band limit will be worth $$$$.
Of course, UMTS will eventually a hudge bandwith (not in the first years)but people will pay for each kb used and they will prefer cheaper, smaller, simpler games, the kind 1 single programer can do. Kind of what we saw with Ultima Online wich was an online game but with much poorer graphics than the other games available at the time.
We will see in mobile terminals exactly the same evolution in games we saw for normal PC's. Today we are still in the basic snake, ping pong and not much more fase (there are already some more complex games but not much more).

So, realize your hobby can in fact be worth something

LB.

oticon6

This forum thread has really helped me, thanks . But there is a problem, I've never tried game programming (outside of Javascript anyway) and I have absolutely no idea where to start. Some of you have said to find existing games and fiddle around with them to help you learn. I completely agree with this idea, as it's what taught me QBasic which led me to VB . But what I want to know is where can I find a game to play around with?

Machaira

Try:
PlanetSourceCode

sirSolarius

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Machaira

Learn some type of notation, Hungarian or otherwise and use it ALWAYS!

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Sajnos, csák egy kicsit tudok magyarul, esh nem tudok felhasználni a programokomban.

=), it just happens that I speak Hungarian (seriously!) and I felt like responding to that. Anyone who can translate that gets $1... and yes, program = program in Hungarian, I asked =).

On a more relevant note, these instructions are very interest, and, more importantly, very different from how I usually make my small programs. I'll have to try them out for sure next project!

sirSolarius

Machaira

This is the best I could do

Unfortunately , barge-pole trifle you can in Hungarian esh not you can eat up the programokomban

Pretty bad, but what do you expect from a free translator website.

xono

ok, i thought i knew a bit about vb, but since i've been looking over some tutorials i've found i know practically nothing So here's my question - in VB, is it possible to use DirectX and OpenGL to create 3D games, or is it totally limited to 2D game that just LOOK 3D? I gotta know this so i know whether to stick with vb or try something better.

Optikal

Yes VB is fully capable to create any type of game with DirectX that any other language using DirectX can create (including 3D games).

IglooGuy

Whilst the basic coding for games in VB is doable, I have problems doing decent graphics for anything beyond simple Tetris or card games. (I've got a feeling it's possible using DirectX and OpenGL, I'm just not sure how, and haven't been able to find any decent tutorials)

Anyone got any tips?

Also: VB starts to slow down when the program gets big. This causes loads of problems in games where reactions are critical, again, any tips?

If you want to contact me, my address is iglooguyomega@yahoo.co.uk. Thanks.

Athiril

that is a very bad way to do things, and you shouldn't be encouraging people to do things like that.

(i have an entire book on this somewhere, called Game Design, secrets of the sages)
documentation should always come first.
first yes, choose a genre.
and then a style, for instance, if it is a RPG, is it futuristic, is it swords and sorcery? etc
now, you should have had already the previous two things in your mind and wanting to start somewhere, now here is where you have to (maybe) think of something new, you could spend days, weeks, months on this, you must think of a title for the game, something that summarises your game in only a few words, and that has a lot of meaning to you.

now, is it going to be multiplayer? if so, on what scale? will it be a persistent world/game.

think of the graphics engine, 2D, 3D? plus all the stuff like isometric, birds eye view, first person, third person etc, will it use DirectX, OpenGL, will it be fullscreen? weather effects? fog? transparency (you really need this for every game :P), translucency (think partial transparency, like red cellophane etc, stained glass, alpha blending, also think about resolution (like 800 x 600 for example) and bit depth (like 32bpp - the numbr of colours) for example

a basic formula is (replace a with either Red, Green or Blue channel 8 bit value) aF = (a1 + a2)/2
for something other than 50% even translucency, you need to specify a percentage (these are software formulas, it works differently when using an alpha channel in DirectX) and is there more than one colour being added? for simplicity look at this loop

p = percentage
aF = final value of either R, G, or B channel


(it's late, i haven't tested that, but i think it works ;P)

)?

what platform (since you are here it'll be Windows)
what language will it be written in (Visual Basic since you are here)

think of sound, what will your music be like? your sound effects? what format? and what will be used to play them back in the game (FMOD is a very good idea - http://www.fmod.org)

design a logo/title graphic for the game.

do some concept art on paper, what does the world look like? what do the creatures look like? special effects? weapons? environment?

now think about, is there any changes need to be made? does it fit your budget if you have one?, write a feasability report (just a report on all the work you've done for your game on whats feasible and whats not and reasons why).

you'll need to keep track of your progress, such as a log/diary.

think about and create on paper, all the characters and creatures and monsters, and weapons, and technology, and magic spells you game will need/want, they need to be detailed.

if your game isn't strictly multiplayer, you'll need to write background information on the characters etc, and everything else.

your game now needs a good story, hopefully after you're up to this point you'll have some idea about it already, write the background story of your world from an innocent bystanders/observers point of view of the world and its history what has happened etc and about the characters in your game, now onto writing the story of your characters from their own point of view (if your game has non playable characters etc), write a detailed story for every character from their point of view (you'll need to be both an actor and a good write, however this should be fun and easy for anything you are passionate about, which is what your game should be about, the stuff you're passionate about etc), this is their life story from their own point of view, and their own personality, it should be written just as if it were real, every major event in their life and anything that effects them (you are the boss of that - what happens to the characters etc), what they think of things, stray thoughts they have (like, i wonder what that smell is), their favourite things, what they think of the world and other characters, their relationships with other characters, and how they got to where they are now (present time in your game), this should not be written from an observers point of view, that was done first remember? (though th observers point of view doesn't have to be as comprehensive as the characters own point of view), the characters story is first person, as if you were there, and you were them. and you were living their lives.

now your game might need a script or it might not, this is what is going to happen to the player(s) etc, you should have a clever idea as to the ongoing story of the game etc, if you've done all of above, writing the script once you've got an idea, shouldn't be very hard at all.

if you're game is completely persistent, you need to be clever to pull off such a stunt as that, and it'll probably still need non-player-characters and lots of quests, the game itself, the unseen part, the code, will need to be have a very good AI itself!, not the npcs, but the code itself should be AI, and it'll need to 'learn', dont forget you'll need a few databases, then again if you are capable of doing such a thing, then what you are reading now is useless, and if you are so clever to make such a thing, i'm sure you would have picked up C or C++ along the way too, and be out of and would probably prefer to use C++ rather than VB.

Level/world design, you'll need to design your first set of levels and worlds on paper, and document them, your story should probably shape it very much and influence it.

i'm kinda tired now, i'm might write a online magazine and post it sometime in a few weeks instead. :P with all sorts of goodness.

anyway to wrap up after this

you'll need graphics and sounds
make/borrow whatever.

you'll need some programs:
Imaging programs like
Photoshop
Paint Shop Pro
Maya
3D Studio Max
MSPaint (dont underestimate mspaint - no seriously, i'm not joking)
etc
Sound Forge
Cool Edit Pro
Reason
etc
or free programs etc

and you'll need your computer of course.

oh and dont forget to design an interface and how it'll work on paper, this is very important, it'll affect gameplay hugely.

comment your code, keep it clean, indent where indents is needed like If blocks, loops etc, it makes things easy to read, and locate where the dreaded missing end if to the block if needs to go.

if dont already know how, find out how to use Data type structures, very useful, especially for keeping track of things, kind of like your own database.

for trignometry, create Sine, Cosine, Tangent and all those others lookup tables, it'll make maths faster (but be careful with tangent etc, as Tangent of 90 will give you an error etc), also define Pi as a constant.

another useful thing to learn and simple to learn to is BINARY file mode, very useful, and can be very fast, (note dont read or write one byte at a team, that is foolishly slow, use something like 4096 bytes at a time).
here is some source for copying a file, and adjusting the amount of bytes to be read near the end of the file if it isn't exactly 4096 to the end of the file


thats it! cya around, it's 7AM, and i have no Idea of what i'm doing! oh yes, work placement starting t 8:30AM, AGH! ciao!

herbweinstein

hi! i'm new to the board.

here are a few more suggestions, albeit a bit high-level.

1) keep it fun. this is crucial, since even the most well-coded and best-looking game can be boring. don't add 1,000 weapon types, 300 monsters, 50 power-ups, and 10 minute cut scenes just because you can. only do it if it adds something to the fun experience of the game.

2) keep it simple, and allow for emergent strategies. if you look at some of the best games of all time (video game and non-video game), the rules and game engine are sufficiently open-ended to allow the user some sense of freedom. in this way, you're not having to dream up and allow for any tactic the player wants to implement. instead, tactics spring up organically from the game's rules.
(Go, Nethack, M.U.L.E., and GTA3 come to mind immediately.)

i hope this makes sense.
hw

zanth_quareni

As everyone has said, the game design document is very important. Some good books for this are: (NOTE: these books cover the design document, NOT actual coding)

Game Design Theroy and Pracice by Richard Rouse (ISBN: 1556227353)
Chris Crawford on Game Design by Chris Crawford (ISBN: 0131460994)

The first was especially helpful and I would definately recommend it.

MGH

Thank you guys for this friendly soul flying around. i'm a new here and im happy to find this cool virtual place.

i have a point here
>> write a lot of comments about every command and sub .etc.
>> the most important thing i read here is to care about making updates to your game even after compiling it by using some kinds of scripting.

wait for me

dionyziz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tintin
What exactly IS scripting?? I think I know what a script is, but what does it DO in a game exactly?

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Your internal game code(i.e. what is included in the .exe and .dlls) must be a general code. This means that this code stays the same for games similar to yours. So if you want to make another game with the same appearence you don't have to change this main code at all. What scripting does is use the main code to do very specific things. For example you must use scripting to load 3d/2d objects, sounds, graphics or whatever, you must use scripting to generate levels, and everything else. So, when you want to change a level, or a trigger/effect in your game you just change the scripts! Scripting can be done by several ways. The easiest way in my opinion is to use windows scripting host, i.e. you just load the file into memory and let it execute it.

PWNettle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Machaira
I've worked on some projects for my job that I would truly like to beat the crap out of the programmers that worked on the code before me as it was obvious that no thought went into the design and now I've got to deal with it. Which brings up another hot topic - coding standards. The following is for everyone, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular.

[ rant on]

Learn them, use them, love them! If you use one or two letter variable names or other non-descriptive variable names - STOP RIGHT NOW! Learn some type of notation, Hungarian or otherwise and use it ALWAYS!

[ /rant off ]

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Amen.

Zumwalt

I have read through all of this, and found myself thinking alot of this is to high level for a n00b programmer let alone a n00b game developer.

Steps to successful game creation.
1) Keep it simple, with the tools you have at your disposal, create something that you can, not going outside your current bounds.

2) Start basic, use microsoft paint to create your objects and understand how the images work in relation to your application.

3) Write a checklist out of the things you want to accomplish for the game and organize them in order of importance.

Example:
a) draw race cars in paint
b) draw map pieces that are 1" by 1" in size so I can attach them to each other
c) determine map size, 640 x 480??? what is my target audience?
d) make the cars move
e) make sure the cars don't go off the edge of the screen
f) make sure the cars have an 'edge' to them so that they can collide
g) work out the details for a very basic collision system
h) figure out basic AI so that I can have a car go around the screen on its own
i) figure out basic AI so that the car can detect another car on the same play field

etc..

Then as you complete each task put a check next to it.

4) Learn to walk away from the code, when it gets frustrating, walk away and come back the next day, the answer is right there.

5) Once the very basic version of your game is working, then think about what else you would like to add to the game.

In the above 5 steps, I have described the most basic form of game using bitmaps for the background and the objects that will be used.

Most beginners want to start by buying 3d Studio max, and have no clue that you need to work on character creation on a 3d mesh and then work on scripting for the animation, let alone how to assign locations on the object for propper movement, since they do not know how to make a 'foot' know where the 'ground' is based on the foot 'coliding' with the ground, along with camera location for the location of the face, this is all a total wash for a n00b to learn in a week.

Going on a very basic design, learning basic AI basic collision detection, and basic script will build a foundation.

Like anything else, creating a working game is an artform, you didn't learn how to type in a day, most started hunt-and-peck on the keyboard (some still use this archaic method).

You can't expect to know how to make an object orverlay another object with transparency behind it, have sound to it, movement, and collision in 5 minutes, so be prepared to spend time learning your way of doing it, because no matter how many of us post how we do it, or what we say is best for you, in the end, it is you that has to decide what your method of approach will be.

Some are visual, some audible, others use memory perception, and there are others that use paper.

It is how you are taught in school or by your piers as to what is right or wrong.

StressedGeezer

I'm also writing my first game, but to be honest I have disagreed with a lot that I have read concerning advice on making games. Firstly, I started to code the game with absolutely no planning, other than "it's gonna be a vertical space shooter". Although this flies in the face of most of the advice here, I have found that I have TOTAL creative freedom to change the game wherever and however I like, at any moment, during the coding process. DOWNSIDE: I am constantly stopping to create graphics, then going to the code, then making graphics again etc., but as I am an artist and I get easily bored doing the same thing, it's not all bad...

Klodo

This works with little games, but when you try to make one a bit more complicated, you'll see it's good to prepare before doing it.

NoviceCS

Hey, your tips here are soo helpful!! I guess all you guys are good VB programmers!!

I would like to ask from any of you how do you inculcate a graphics in a VB code? Can a VB language do it all? Or do we have to grasp for another language? I'm just interested .....cause I'm might go for an online game project in our school. I hope I could ask some help or a tips from you guys.Thanks

NoviceCS

Klodo yeah I agree with you. I think in every endeavor or things you plan to achieved , you should have planned it well. First step in SDLC is PLANNING

Klodo

For graphics you should try to learn BitBlt, just make a search on the forum/goole, and you'll find more than needed information. (It's like this I learned it)