Legacy VB is... legacy :(
Legacy VB is... legacy :(
Legacy VB is... legacy :(
Legacy VB is... legacy :(
Legacy VB is... legacy :(
Legacy VB is... legacy :( Legacy VB is... legacy :( Legacy VB is... legacy :( Legacy VB is... legacy :( Legacy VB is... legacy :( Legacy VB is... legacy :( Legacy VB is... legacy :( Legacy VB is... legacy :(
Legacy VB is... legacy :( Legacy VB is... legacy :(
Legacy VB is... legacy :(
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  #21  
Old 06-04-2012, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
No, there is a real problem with alternative languages, they simply don't map well onto the problem space.
I will take your word on it since I am an alien to the business domain/section that we are talking about here and your points are well supported, established.

If there is no alternative language that can support which needs to be supported in this business domain then maybe they should support the languages that are already serving them well by financing - pushing academia, communities, commercial entities that can extend them.

I made a little research and found out that approximately in 80 Universities in the States, Cobol is offered as a class/seminar and IBM is supporting these academic institutions with hardware and training materials which sounds like a good investment for them.
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  #22  
Old 06-04-2012, 04:52 PM
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I don't think VB6 is /just/ the small stuff. I think it is the kind of language appropriate for the small stuff where C#/WPF makes me a little leery for small projects. Whether VB6 is good at the middle/large stuff depends on who writes the code and how they write it. I'd rather work on ASM from a great programmer with documentation than VB6 from a "Teach yourself VB in 24 hours" trained developer. Too often the small stuff programmers write the large stuff. It's as disastrous when the large stuff programmers attempt the small stuff.
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  #23  
Old 06-04-2012, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtmaWeapon View Post
I'd rather work on ASM from a great programmer with documentation than VB6 from a "Teach yourself VB in 24 hours" trained developer.
A random thought, off topic - for some reason, actually for obvious reasons .. this statement reminded me the seminar given by Dougles Crockford (Writer of JavaScript: The Good Parts -- actual seminar recorded and reachable at youtube) in which he pointed one of the biggest problems of JavaScript is that it can be used by anyone without any training or what so ever.
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  #24  
Old 06-05-2012, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpcH View Post
... in which he pointed one of the biggest problems of JavaScript is that it can be used by anyone without any training or what so ever.
Well that's the trouble with any language.

I think JavaScript, VB, VB.Net, and stuff like PHP (gag) suffer from this more than others though.

Maybe he meant that it is eaasier to get your hands on than actual programming languages though, since anyone with a browser "has JavaScript" in a sense?

I'm convinced a lot of failed VB/VB.Net plinkers move to C# because they think it magically obscures their weak programming skills. The result is still random indentation, overuse of magic numbers, pretzel logic, "oops, I fell on my keyboard" line breaks, etc. but they don't think anyone can spot it in C# code.
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  #25  
Old 06-05-2012, 06:55 PM
hDC_0Legacy VB is... legacy :( hDC_0 is offline
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Default It's an employer's marketplace..following/aligning to what they want

Quote:
Originally Posted by dilettante
I'm convinced a lot of failed VB/VB.Net plinkers move to C# because they think it magically obscures their weak programming skills.
Actually both failed, and non-failed, VB.Net coders are being forced to move to C# because employers are demanding it.

With the recession dragging on for several years now, job growth continues to be weak.

If you have any coding experience at at you end up very carefully studying
the Craigslist ads (and other job sites) to parse out where the job
marketplace is right now and where it is going.

If you see a job listing for ASP.Net, the chances are much higher that it is going to
also mention C#.Net rather than VB.Net.

I see at least 25 job postings for C#.Net for every one I see for VB.Net.
It's what direct hire employers (like health care providers) want in terms of .Net coding.
Even the tech temp job shops like K-Force, Adecco, Robert Half Technology,
and Volt technical services are asking for C#.Net coders these days.

And the few that want VB.Net coders are generally only looking to update old VB6 code to VB.Net.

The ratio of companies looking for PHP programmers is at least 10:1 over those looking for,
(or specifically mentioning), javascript programming experience.

Maybe javascript experience is just assumed these days, but keywords like ajax, json,
and some specific javascript library (like JQuery, prototype.js, scriptalicious, ext.js, mootools, yui, easel, raphael, etc)
are mentioned much more often than just the generic "javascript" keyword.

You have to ask yourself why "weak" programmers are "weak".

Is it because they can't afford to take on twenty years of debt to get a
four year college degree?

Is it because most American companies refused to train anyone they hire to code properly?
(..with the employer's lament/excuse being: "if we give them training they'll only
quit for a better job somewhere else..").

The unwillingness to train people in America also leads to the whining:
"we can't find enough skilled coders in the United States..we have to use the H1-B
program to hire coders from abroad or outsource offshore".

I'd rather see the H1-B program discontinued and the government increase the
Pell Grant program to some level that is realistic with today's rising tuition costs.

Maybe even have more DARPA grants for computer science grads so they can
afford to do graduate studies and assist with advances that are needed now,
and in the years ahead, for robotics, AI, expert systems, and the like.

Growth the pie - even plinkers need to do something to contribute to society.

Last edited by hDC_0; 06-05-2012 at 07:23 PM.
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  #26  
Old 06-05-2012, 10:17 PM
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I think weak programmers are weak because programming is an 8-5 job for them and they're unwilling to learn anything other than a single tool. They become "VB6 developers" and any research they do is googling "How do I solve my current problem?" Unfortunately there's a ton of these vs. the people willing to spend an hour a week reading a book about a different language or some unfamiliar topic. I used to spend a ridiculous amount of time on off-topic studies and do tons of work at home. Now I separate work and home better but I still like to have hobby projects that have nothing to do with work.

It's got nothing to do with degrees or certifications and everything to do with passion. This is a craft where everything you absorb may be useful one day. I would /never/ hire a person who responds to "What does this snippet do?" with "I can't read C#" and nothing else.
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  #27  
Old 06-07-2012, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtmaWeapon
Unfortunately there's a ton of these..
..and some of them don't even bother to do a Google search before
coming to ask their question(s) on the xvbt forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtmaWeapon

This is a craft where everything you absorb may be useful one day.
Agreed,
but how to you convey this is a way that motivates "weak" programmers to
Quote:
..spend an hour a week reading a book about a different language or some unfamiliar topic

The other thing to mention is that many programmers who have
strong coding skills (and successful programming careers),
often "narrow-cast" there coding expertise.

Such as programmers who have spent a goodly portion of their
life doing nothing but a specific type of programming like
VBA/Office-workflow, or databases/SQL queries,
and don't get into things like graphics programming,
writing multi-threaded/multi-core parallel processing code, etc.

In their case it is spending all their time dealing with
day-to-day job-related coding that keeps them from
exploring all the features that the .Net framework has to offer.
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  #28  
Old 06-08-2012, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
dealing with day-to-day job-related coding that keeps them from
exploring all the features that the .Net framework has to offer.
Absolutely. Indeed job-related non-programming issues as well.
The world is many shades of gray. For some there are not enough hours in the day.
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  #29  
Old 06-08-2012, 04:52 PM
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So true. Like finding time to play with toys.



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  #30  
Old 06-08-2012, 08:24 PM
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Meh. I've had my share of 80-hour weeks this past year but I still found time here and there to see things that had passed me by.
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  #31  
Old 06-09-2012, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtmaWeapon View Post
Meh. I've had my share of 80-hour weeks this past year but I still found time here and there to see things that had passed me by.
Well Atma, you must be a superman. I have clocked many of the same and all I could muster was a trip to the casino for a day.
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  #32  
Old 11-26-2012, 12:48 AM
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You know, after all these years.... Writing java apps for android, c++ Dx11 games, vb.net and c# apps.... I still go back to vb6 to write helper code (as in simple editors for game levels etc) from time to time as it really is a great language to do RAD stuff in...

At the moment i'm writing a car pc interface in vb6 with c++ DLLs for the sheer fact I can use a stripped down version of XP which boots ultra fast. Plus vb6 doesn't need all that bloated .net framework, and also doesn't need that bloated java framework installed to run it.... Oh yeah, and also runs natively, not half arsed JIT... blah blah blah, think i need a beer... :P

Long live vb6 :P

oh yeah, hi everyone, if anyone still remembers me....
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  #33  
Old 11-26-2012, 03:15 PM
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Default Pookie lives!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookie
hi everyone, if anyone still remembers me...
Pookie you're still alive!

I remember you..but you haven't posted for years.
This was you previous last posted dated "04-18-2005, 02:30 AM"
Glad you haven't given up on VB6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookie
Writing.. vb.net and c# apps..
What VB.Net apps have you been writing?
Anything you'd care to share?
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  #34  
Old 11-26-2012, 04:19 PM
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Great to see your face Pook!

Hope you'll stick around and help breathe some new life into the forum.
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  #35  
Old 11-27-2012, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hDC_0 View Post
Pookie you're still alive!

I remember you..but you haven't posted for years.
This was you previous last posted dated "04-18-2005, 02:30 AM"
Glad you haven't given up on VB6.


What VB.Net apps have you been writing?
Anything you'd care to share?
Oh wow and wasn't that a doozy of a reply I gave. Classic Pook

And where's Thinker, Lebb, 0nError, Iceplug, Squirm, Kitaiko... oh yeah, he got banned :$

Nah, my code is very dodgy, I had to bribe them to give me expert status...

I just write stuff, you know little apps and things when I need something, like level editors, mp3 players, font creators, oh yeah, i wrote a 3d ray tracing thingy in vb6 which I used in a Minecraft clone game i half finished in c++, which allows lights to cast shadows on blocks etc... until i got bored of it and went to another project :P

Hi gruff, name doesn't sound familiar... hmmm, name changed or maybe my memory loss oh yeah, what was i saying again???

Oh Hi gruff, name doesn't sound familiar... hmmm, name changed or maybe my memory loss oh yeah, what was i saying again???

Oh... How time flies, seems like yesterday when I replied on here last... Actually it was yesterday! :/
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  #36  
Old 11-27-2012, 12:54 AM
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Oh yeah, here's a screen shot or five to bedazzle yous.... *plays bedazzling music*
Attached Images
File Type: jpg scene 2011-12-07 21-40-50-05.jpg (137.8 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg scene 2011-11-10 21-26-12-02.jpg (118.3 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg scene 2011-11-10 21-33-32-80.jpg (45.7 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg scene 2011-11-10 21-34-49-05.jpg (43.3 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg scene 2011-11-10 21-33-40-40.jpg (41.9 KB, 8 views)
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  #37  
Old 11-27-2012, 08:21 AM
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Hahaha I don't know you but I like you.
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  #38  
Old 11-27-2012, 09:25 AM
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Wow! Pookie lives! WB.
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  #39  
Old 11-27-2012, 10:37 AM
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Cool beans Pookie. Are those shots from Mine Craft or something you rolled on your own?

I definitely remember you, at that time I was a minor player on the forum.
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  #40  
Old 11-27-2012, 02:08 PM
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It's from a project I started from scratch, and went for a couple of months before I lost interest... It's in c++ and using Dx11, because writing programmable shaders are so much fun!!! Maybe one day I'll continue it

I did spend a full week trying to get the shadow maps to cast real time shadows over everything but found the depthshader buffer highly annoying in how inaccurate it is over long distances (it's logarithmic, not linear), causing lots of artifacts in all the corners, and I really didn't want to write a cascading system of overlapping depth buffers for it, esp when the display area was 512x512 in size....
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Legacy VB is... legacy :(
Legacy VB is... legacy :(
Legacy VB is... legacy :( Legacy VB is... legacy :(
Legacy VB is... legacy :(
Legacy VB is... legacy :(
Legacy VB is... legacy :( Legacy VB is... legacy :( Legacy VB is... legacy :( Legacy VB is... legacy :( Legacy VB is... legacy :( Legacy VB is... legacy :( Legacy VB is... legacy :(
Legacy VB is... legacy :(
Legacy VB is... legacy :(
 
Legacy VB is... legacy :(
Legacy VB is... legacy :(
 
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