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  #1  
Old 08-03-2004, 04:17 PM
Ragnarok Ragnarok is offline
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Default Vb Vs C#


Hello

Considering VS.Net relies on the .Net framework to work and all the language compatibility and shared classes and stuff, is there a big difference programmming games on VB.Net or C# or which tool is better?


Thanks for your opinions

K'
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2004, 08:04 PM
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im not positve about this but, it depends on what kind of game you want to make, C is a more powerfull language for games and VB for application. dont get me wrong though, you can use directX to make some pretty good games. But like i said it depends on the type of game you want to make. If you search around the forms a bit you will find a bunch of discussions about this
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  #3  
Old 08-04-2004, 09:20 AM
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The truth is that there is no Visual Basic .NET language, nor is there a C# language. There is, in fact, a single .NET language called MSIL (Microsoft Intermediate Language). Both Visual Basic .NET and C# compilers produce MSIL code, and the code they produce is nearly identical!

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Old 08-04-2004, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faith
The truth is that there is no Visual Basic .NET language, nor is there a C# language. There is, in fact, a single .NET language called MSIL (Microsoft Intermediate Language). Both Visual Basic .NET and C# compilers produce MSIL code, and the code they produce is nearly identical!

-Faith
well thats what happen after u compile, but, before that there is Visual Basic .NET and C# .NET languages... C# is (basicaly) the combination of c++ and visual basic so, from what i have read so far (books and forums), C# gives u more control over stuff but its harder then VB .NET... I'm trying to migrate from VB6 to C# and hell! The sintaxe is quite similar (if not identical) to c, c++, that is, dificult!!!
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Old 08-04-2004, 11:09 AM
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So faith are you saying that the oldendays VC++ 6 has lost his speed in comparision to VB in the .NET framework. Because if all the languages produce nearly identical code they should all be as fast as eachother in doing the same jobs. So then that would mean only the syntax of the language matters which the programmer prefers. Meaning it wouldn't matter making the game in VB or C++

Am i right??
Or is there still a difference between C++ and VB in calculations and stuff

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  #6  
Old 08-05-2004, 05:42 AM
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Faith wasn't talking about C++. He was talking about C#, which is a totally different language.
There probably isn't that much of a difference between VB.NET, C#.NET, and C++, but on the upcoming Windows.NET Longhorn, I hear that the VB.NET and C#.NET will run faster because the .NET stuff is already installed and operating.
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Old 08-05-2004, 06:51 AM
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So what does that mean if you need speed like for game programming that you be better of with VB.NET or C#.NET than C++.NET??
And just a general question do you know if there is much preformance difference in C++ impentations like .NET or the Borland version etc??

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Old 08-06-2004, 03:01 PM
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All .NET languages are generally going to be the same speed.
I don't know a thing about C++ implementations, but if you are paranoid about C++, then use it... use whatever language is best for you.
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Old 08-06-2004, 11:34 PM
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I personally think VB.NET is best. It's a little more simple, and C# and VB.NET are basically the same anyway.
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  #10  
Old 08-27-2004, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntercobrax
I personally think VB.NET is best. It's a little more simple, and C# and VB.NET are basically the same anyway.
I agree
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Old 08-27-2004, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntercobrax
I personally think VB.NET is best. It's a little more simple, and C# and VB.NET are basically the same anyway.
The biggest differences between the two that I've seen is that VB.Net (2003) has better intelisense than C# (2003). In 2005 C# is very much improved, but having to rebuild your program to update your error list is still annoying. VB.Net also lets you get away without being as strong typed in everything - even with option explicit on.

C# is case sensitive. Sounds like a drawback, but when you're making member variables and public properties it's a time saver.

C# code is often more concise and easier to read - but the brackets make the whole formatting very hard to read. C# 2005 (and current 3rd party tools) allow for bracket highlighting - you click on one and the other is highlighted. Makes it easier to find your methods. In VB it's a bit easier with "End Class", "End Sub" "End Function" "End Property", etc. You can look at it and differentiate things better.

They're both technically equivilent - C# might be able to do a few things that VB.net can't and visa versa (pick up the MSCD training book, it points out the differences and alternate methods to achieve something). Overall I think in a professional environment C# would currently have the advantage for having XML documentation right out of the box. VB you need to do this by hand or get a 3rd party tool.

I like them both, but prefer VB.Net for dealing with forms and C# for dealing with proper classes.

If you know how to use one the other is easy to learn - but there will be sticking points. Knowing how to raise events in VB.Net means you'll have absolutely no clue how to do it in C#. The whole delegate system in vb is handled with a single declaration here and there, a single function to add an event. C# isn't worse, but it's handled differently. Caught me up for a few hours when I was learning C#.
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Old 08-27-2004, 07:45 PM
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Denaes, nice discussion.

Can you clarify what you mean here:
Quote:
C# is case sensitive. Sounds like a drawback, but when you're making member variables and public properties it's a time saver.
I could never understand why one would want a case sensitive language, I think it would drive me positively insane and/or be ripe for an unintended accident. But here you are making a case for it... Can you explain this a bit more, I don't quite follow what you mean?
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  #13  
Old 08-27-2004, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_R
Denaes, nice discussion.

Can you clarify what you mean here: I could never understand why one would want a case sensitive language, I think it would drive me positively insane and/or be ripe for an unintended accident. But here you are making a case for it... Can you explain this a bit more, I don't quite follow what you mean?
Case sensitive without intellisense is a recipe for disaster.

As you have intellisense (limited in 2003, pretty nice in 2005) it's not nearly as bad.

If you have the variable: nastyMeter (indicating that it's a private member variable because it starts lowercase) and type: this.Nas... you'll notice nothing is comming up. If you type this.nas... the intellisense kicks in and picks it up.

One habit I'd picked up in C# was always using "this." (equivilent of "me." in VB).

Now since it's a private member variable and we're doing OOP in a class, we want a public property. What to name it? Well it's public, so it starts with a capital... what would logically work? aha! just use the same name, but with a capital! NastyMeter. Same name, easy to remember.

In this case, you shouldn't be using nastyMeter, but NastyMeter instead - you just normally use the property especitally if there is validation involved. At least in the MCAD windows programming books, they access the private member variables via a public property even within the class.

Why is this better (I think just cleaner and nicer) than VB? Well this won't work in VB. It's not case sensitive. nastyMeter and NastyMeter will conflict. Heck VB will try to change it to it's declared case. So what are you left with in VB?

I've seen private member variables like so: "mNastyMeter", "_NastyMeter", and "m_NastyMeter". I'm a decent typist, but I detist having to reach for the underscore to get at anything.

Ironically Microsofts Official naming convention is to not have a "m", "_" or "m_" (or whatever else floats your boat), but to just have lower case for member (nastyMeter) and uppercase for public property (NastyMeter). No prefixes and just today I was reading through the MCAD win apps book and they're using "mNastyMeter" convention for their certification training. Odd.

It seems that being case sensitive would be a drawback, but with intellisense and advanced debugging (well not as advanced as VB) case sensitivity is a nice feature. Nothing to choose a language over, but it's nice.
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Old 08-27-2004, 08:32 PM
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Ok, I catch your point. Interesting. Still would take some getting used to I think... and for straight procedure calls (and/or the initial Global utilized) case sensitivity can make this tough. It's nice to type in all lower-case and have the IDE visually confirm its existing by ProperCasing it for you automatically.

Good stuff... thx.
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Old 08-28-2004, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntercobrax
I personally think VB.NET is best. It's a little more simple
I find C# to be simpler. Really - I don't think either one is easier than the other - they're just different. I'd agree with a lot of what Denaes says - particularly the C# postitives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denaes
The biggest differences between the two that I've seen is that VB.Net (2003) has better intelisense than C# (2003). In 2005 C#
I haven't noticed that but I mostly do C#. I haven't ever considered the Intellisense in C# to be lacking. In my VB.Net wanderings I haven't noticed anything different. What does VB.Net's Intellisense offer that C#'s lacks, I wonder...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denaes
C# code is often more concise and easier to read
Agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denaes
but the brackets make the whole formatting very hard to read.
Disagree - but I'm sure it's a matter of tastes. One thing with the brackets is that there are a few different styles for using them and I definitely don't like some of those styles. When it comes to writing readable and code it's just as easy to write beautiful or hideous VB.Net code. Compilers don't enforce indenting, variable naming, style, etc.. [/QUOTE]

I started in .Net with C# and then started messing with VB.Net later - after having worked with VB6, VBA, and previous versions of VB for many years - which is probably a big factor in my C# preference. Once I got used to the more C-like syntax I actually found VB to be kind of barbaric. But, that's just me. Most of my former VB6 and now C# writing coworkers feel pretty much the same way. It's kind of wierd, since I did VB so long, but there it is.

As many have stated - the underlying framework is pretty much the same for both so it doesn't matter much which one you choose to use and it's nice to have a choice of languages with similar power.

Paul
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Old 08-28-2004, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWNettle
I haven't noticed that but I mostly do C#. I haven't ever considered the Intellisense in C# to be lacking. In my VB.Net wanderings I haven't noticed anything different. What does VB.Net's Intellisense offer that C#'s lacks, I wonder...?
For starters you often have to rebuild the project/solution to get it to update intellisense and to show the debug errors. It's also a little annoying to have one error showing, then you keep fixing it and another keeps poping up. Just annoying.

When you use VB.net for a year and then go to C#, you notice every time the intellisense doesn't do as it should. After a while you get used to it - how C# has a different flavor of intellisense but still not nearly as good. In C# 2005 it's a lot more responsive.

Could almost compare it to cars and steering. I had a crappy oldsmobile with awful steering and my friend went to drive it and told me I needed to get it fixed. He was used to driving a car with 1pt rack n pinion steering. you point the wheel the car goes. mine had awful alignment and you had to turn the wheel 3 times to make a right. It works and I was used to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PWNettle
Disagree - but I'm sure it's a matter of tastes. One thing with the brackets is that there are a few different styles for using them and I definitely don't like some of those styles. When it comes to writing readable and code it's just as easy to write beautiful or hideous VB.Net code. Compilers don't enforce indenting, variable naming, style, etc..
When you're on a screen near the end of some regions, functions and logic statements and all you see is a bunch of "}" and you have to physically put your finger up to the screen and scroll up to find out which one is which is a little annoying. I'm sure if you use brackets for years you can look at a page with 9,000 brackets on it and match them up immedietly, but newcommers cannot.

Its just a part where I believe that VB helps you out. I'd probobly have the same problem with "End IF" if I had 13 nested logic statements... I'd have to get a ruler or something to match them up.

In the Java compiler I used in school, #Develop (free C# IDE) and C# 2005 they all had bracket highlighting (click one bracket and the other highlights) which did help me greatly.
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Old 08-28-2004, 07:25 AM
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I think when having variables i.e "strName" and "StrName" is far too great a risk to make undebuggable mistakes in a massive project.
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Old 08-28-2004, 07:36 AM
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Of course it is. And Denaes has obviously misread the MS naming convention guide.
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Old 08-28-2004, 07:45 AM
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The only time you should ever have two things with the same name in a class in different case is with a property procedure:
Code:
public string StrName() {
  get {
    return strname;
  }
Anything else is uncivilized.

(StrName just looks tacky to be on the autocomplete list)
In VB, I usually have the full name for the Public property: Name
and abbreviate it vigorously for the private member: nm
Size becomes sz, Color becomes clr, Count becomes ct, Length becomes lth.
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Old 08-28-2004, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reboot
Of course it is. And Denaes has obviously misread the MS naming convention guide.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...ensitivity.asp
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...guidelines.asp
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Last edited by Faith; 08-28-2004 at 12:29 PM.
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