The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread
The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread
The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread
The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread
The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread
The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread
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The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread
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  #101  
Old 09-23-2005, 07:22 PM
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Haha, good point. Fair enough. I can appreciate that one, we have a 250,000 line app with half still in FORTRAN 77 - not exactly the industry standard...
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  #102  
Old 09-23-2005, 07:34 PM
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What reboot said is the main thing that came to mind when I posted earlier.

Two other things that come to mind are having to deal with integrating new applications with much older technologies and developing system utilities or standard com dlls (obviously not native to VB6 but can be done). The first is something we have to deal with at my job where we have to use DDE and VB.NET doesn't do that without some help. The help is done in a VB6 activex exe. The second is like what Mathimagics does where he develops lower level applications with the use of some slick helper utilities.

Of course VB6 is is dying so no matter what you are doing with it you should think about where you are going in the future. You don't have to go with .NET if you don't want to, but soon you will have to go in a different direction than VB6. I see VB6 as going the same route as QBasic. You will still find VB6 apps out there 10 years from now but most will have been converted and the ones that are still there will be limited in their capabilities and need to be re-written in something else even if that something else is not .NET. There are plenty of systems out there right now going from QB straight to .NET so it stands to reason that there will be a good number that go straight from VB6 to whatever comes after .NET.

Even with all that said it makes very little sense to me to develop a new medium to large scale application in VB6 at this point. Some simple little helper utilities would be just fine provided they don't suffer from feature creep and end up a medium sized application.

Of course you know that all of this is just my opinion. If someone wants to write the next killer office application in VB6 then I wish them good luck with it, I won't stop them.
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  #103  
Old 09-24-2005, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reboot
Hundreds of thousands of lines of VB6 code. And absolutely no justifiable reason to spend the megabucks it would require to convert it all. How's that?
Good point. No justifiable reason, don't migrate. But let's make two simple scenarios:

#1
If someday you need to integrate new technologies, you'll have no choice but to migrate eventually. Maybe someday your client tell you, "I need to expose this functionaly as webservice." Event worse, "it must be finished by next month!" So what would you do?

#2
Your applications were hacked shortly after a critical vulnerability in obsolete vb6 runtime was founded. Even worse, a database full with creditcard info was stolen during the hack. What could you do to fix the glitch? You knew that you couldn't force Microsoft to fix that for you. Even worse, Microsoft said "What's a shame you stuborns!"
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  #104  
Old 03-22-2006, 12:38 PM
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a little off-topic i guess, but i think it should be said.
microsoft is offering Visual Basic 2005 Express Edition to download for free
why are they doing it? is it the "developers" run again?
is there any difference between the Express Edition and the VB2K5 i've been hearing from? (both are .NET, btw)

i know the first post says i shouldn't say this, but i do. i don't like .NET.
why didn't they called it "something .NET"? or "a new programming language .NET"?
why have they called it "Visual basic .NET"?
i tried, but i couldn't program anything in VB.NET. it's just a totally different language.

is it worth learning dotNET now? i'm young... will VB6 really be descontinued by MS in 2010?

thanks for the time you spent reading this

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  #105  
Old 03-22-2006, 01:19 PM
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They're offering it for free to get some younger developers in. Many students are using C or Java or PHP because that's what they can get. This way they can get VB/C#/ASP.NET too.

The difference between Express and the other versions (Standard, Professional, ...) is the features. The other versions have some more templates, some more wizards and features for developing quicker. Basically, the more you pay, the more help you get...

It is Visual Basic. It's a step forward as far as programming goes. It's similar to the difference between C and C++. This is VB and VB.NET.

Since you're youg you really should want to learn it. I don't understand why you wouldn't...
VB6 is already discontinued. They don't sell it anymore. By the time you get to the job market you'll need 10 years of experience or someone else will get the job. .NET will be the only thing out there in entry level VB.
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  #106  
Old 03-22-2006, 01:26 PM
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No doubt it was mentioned somewhere above, but if you ever want to get a programming job, .NET is pretty much the only language companies are developing in. Only very few companies still have C++ or VB6.

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Until Microsoft pulls COM out of their OS
Now I will have nightmares. Is it actually possible that they will remove COM? What are they going to replace it with?
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  #107  
Old 03-22-2006, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Val
Now I will have nightmares. Is it actually possible that they will remove COM? What are they going to replace it with?
.NET is the replacement for COM... And the COM Interop allows .NET to communicate with legacy COM components such as ActiveX DLL's, etc., and it does so quite seemlessly.
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  #108  
Old 03-22-2006, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Val
No doubt it was mentioned somewhere above, but if you ever want to get a programming job, .NET is pretty much the only language companies are developing in. Only very few companies still have C++ or VB6.
I love made up statistics. That's just simply not true. .NET development is still quite small and most of the jobs are web development. Here's a real stat for you. Most of the code out there is Cobol. Imagine that.
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  #109  
Old 03-22-2006, 04:35 PM
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I should have mentioned that these "statistics" were from my point of view, and not absolute. Basically, the last time I viewed lists of programming/web dev jobs in my region, 99.9% of them were for .NET . Others were for languages I never even heard of, combined with familiar stuff like C++.

The worst part is, now they just say "Visual Basic Tutor Wanted", and they don't even mention in the job title what Visual Basic they are talking about. Every time I viewed details about jobs with names like that, it turned out they were using .NET. So I can only imagine that .NET is now the complete standard, and everything is written with the framework unless it is specifically stated that it's written with "old IDE software".

I do think it is safe to assume that .NET is the only thing around, since the job listings speak for themselves. In your area, of course, they may be different.
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  #110  
Old 03-23-2006, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reboot
I love made up statistics. That's just simply not true. .NET development is still quite small and most of the jobs are web development. Here's a real stat for you. Most of the code out there is Cobol. Imagine that.
I wonder where the reliable source of "Most of the code out there is Cobol" is. I just don't believe it. Even it's true, the demand of Cobol programers are somewhere near zero line, because the code of old softwares are meant to be left untouched and unfixed, due to the fear of breaking business logics, etc. Yes, I see those banks still use Fortran and Cobol programs, but hell 1992 is the year of the latest version! That's simply mean Cobol/Fortran programmers would be down and out if they froze themselves in time. That's 14 years of no job!

To the recent poster who digged up this mummy thread, you should move on, because market trend is changing. Simply, more .net jobs are available especially related to web application (asp.net) and web service. It's consumers who drive this trend, not developers, so it's a one-way street here for us. Consumers are kings...

If you want to be a better developer; thus, earn big paycheck, as you're still young, learn several languages such as VB6, VB.Net, C#, C++, Java, Javascript, Html, etc. They all will do you good for your coding career. Of course now, there're some vb6 jobs, but as mentioned, market trend is changing. In several years time, as computer is faster and cheaper, and net is rapidly expanding, the Microsoft backed .Net language will be the first choice in all developments.

P.S. While i'm replying, some guys at NASA are writing updates for their recent NASA World Wind software written in .Net. Also I've just completed a vb.net class for my biggest solo project containing 50 vb.net projects in two .net solution. Quite big for solo heh?
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Last edited by brandnew; 03-23-2006 at 04:23 AM.
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  #111  
Old 03-23-2006, 07:25 AM
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I work for a NASA contractor, and just finished a project in .NET and LabVIEW.

I also modify an old Fortran program from time to time. They're replacing these, but some will be around for years to come. The old compilers are handicapped in many respects, but there are some number crunching tasks for which they are well suited.
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  #112  
Old 03-23-2006, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandnew
I wonder where the reliable source of "Most of the code out there is Cobol" is. I just don't believe it. Even it's true, the demand of Cobol programers are somewhere near zero line, because the code of old softwares are meant to be left untouched and unfixed, due to the fear of breaking business logics, etc.
I know most (above 80%) of the code at the last two places I've worked is COBOL on a mainframe. The current company actually just upgraded the hardware to keep it around longer. And both companies are still developing new apps. It's not just maintainence. They've spent a ton of money getting a mainframe in there, it would be way to expensive to get rid of it. COBOL isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

(I am happy to say, that I haven't had to do any of the COBOL. I'm on the web side of the development fence. )
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  #113  
Old 03-30-2006, 08:58 AM
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Have to say I completely agree with Wayneph. On Dec 2004 I moved to a Cobol environment from VB6 (I've been out of the forum for more than a year)... which was a billing system from a huge US company. And that's not all: from there I moved to another huge company which has a big amount of Cobol code. Luckily for me, I'm not on Cobol there, as now I have %50 VB. NET & ASP.NET, and %50 UNIX environment. But unlike Wayneph, I did have to work my ... off on Cobol! Everything is a growth experience anyway
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  #114  
Old 04-03-2006, 01:39 PM
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Correct. By the way most banks and old shop stores in my town and many 3d world towns of 3d world countries uses COBOL or PASCAL in their systems, and those are only administration/finances systems. Saying that COBOL is a cr@p and that no one uses it is the result of the bad campaing the language has supported. I think COBOL is just old and uncool, but I would hate to hear that VB6 is stupid in 40 years, I swear I will hit whoever say that someday from here to 40 years. Ok
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  #115  
Old 04-03-2006, 01:46 PM
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Relative to what will be available in 40 years, VB 6.0 will look very crude. It already does due to .NET. COBOL isn't "bad", but it is still heavily used today, but this is a legacy compatibility issue, not a question of what is the best code to use for a new project.
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  #116  
Old 04-04-2006, 12:22 AM
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Does anyone know why there is no COBOL job at getafreelancer.com, rentacoder.com and elance.com?
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  #117  
Old 04-04-2006, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_R
Relative to what will be available in 40 years, VB 6.0 will look very crude. It already does due to .NET.
The first assertion may or may not prove to be true, it's debatable.

The second, on the other hand, is *******s, Mike!
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  #118  
Old 04-04-2006, 06:37 AM
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Hmnn, you know, I will like to hear why some people keeps putting .NET down, with all its issues it is the most advanced and straigth-forward programming framework ever developed (or is there something better?).

I agree that VB will hardly look "crude" in 40 years but it is obvious that .NET supersedes the VB6 framework.
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  #119  
Old 04-04-2006, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by MathImagics
The first assertion may or may not prove to be true, it's debatable.

The second, on the other hand, is *******s, Mike!
Well, most guys can't control VB 6.0 with the finesse that you can, Maths!

A few observations along these lines:

(1) NET languages such as C#, VB.NET etc. are better at handling large scale projects mostly due to the ability to have nested namespaces and classes. In VB6, the hierarchy is flat and you need multiple DLL's to create a hierarchy of ProjectName.ClassName.

(2) The way .NET handles garbage collection removes the parent-child circularity problem which is really a devil to deal with in VB 6.0. I dealt with it in VB6 by using weak pointers in one of the directions (usually the back-pointer to the parent was weak) but this can still get really hairy; you must enforce that the Parent always exists. Seems like a simple rule on the surface, but you can really get bit on the rear with it... .NET ultimately went with non-deterministic object destruction -- which is distasteful on the surface I must admit -- but I don't see any other way. Maybe someday someone will think of something better.

(3) Inheritance in OO languages like .NET is very nice, especially when you need it, but I suspect that Generics will actually be more widely used.

(4) But I think the best part of .NET -- and what makes VB 6.0 at least "look" crude by comparison, even if the language differences really aren't that big -- is the IDE. The IDE is just so, so nice, at least in VB.NET. (I will say that the C# IDE for 2005 is improved about a million fold, but it's still slightly buggy compared to VB.NET.) The debugger reports errors and warnings on the fly as you type; hover your mouse and you get detailed feedback about what's wrong.

(5) The ability to add XML comments, too, although seeming like "eye candy", really is very nice. Not so much to make Help files -- although for a full blown project this is clearly nice -- but the fact that the <Summary> and <Param> tags are utilized immediately during intellisense when accessed from other locations in your code is really sweet.

(6) The above are just language issues... On top of that, there is a vast framework of utilities, which are often more convoluted to use than one might like, but there is a ton of functionality. The fact that multiple languages, such as C# and VB.NET and concepts such as ASP.NET are tied together into one system is also very impressive.

(7) .NET has "canned" a lot of complex elements for us. For example, much as VB 6.0 wrapped complex code into simple controls like forms, buttons, etc., .NET has canned some concepts like a Windows Service or a Web Service that allow you to create at least simple services like this in only about 5 lines of code. Threading as well has gone from mind-bogglingly difficult in VB 6.0 to "just hard" (lol) in .NET.

That said, the downside of .NET is deployment. The goal is "x-copy deployment" and it works 100% when deploying to yourself, but the reality is much more complicated due to security and "trust" issues. I also suspect that the indeterminate object destruction is likely to bite some people on the rear-end due to having "live" objects that were "logically" killed off. This will make for some very interesting bugs to track down, I'm sure! And code security ("dotfuscating", etc.) is another issue for .NET as well...

-- Mike
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Last edited by Mike Rosenblum; 04-05-2006 at 06:41 AM.
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  #120  
Old 04-04-2006, 06:57 AM
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I definetly agree with you.

I took the .NET plunge about two years ago when Visual Basic Studio 2003 was relatively new. Two years later and after using .NET so much I have found that VB6 does not compare to the features that .NET offers.

One thing I believe all people looking at switching should know is the real-time debugging that .NET offers. Whenever I go back to an old program in VB6 I get fed up that there is no real-time debugging. I like how Microsoft said "Hey! We put automatic spell check in our Office programs! Why not put real-time debugging in our developing software!?" Since then, I havn't looked back.
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