The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread
The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread
The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread
The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread
The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread
The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread The Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread
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  #121  
Old 04-04-2006, 09:06 AM
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VB.net opened my eyes to see how crude VB6 is. I realized how funny I had been to support vb6 in "vb6 vs c++" debates. I had been blinded all the way by some vb6 extremists. In old days, I would love someone comparing "vb6 vs c++" as "apple vs orange", but now i believe i don't. In this case, I believe "vb6 vs vb.net" is more like "a tool vs a box full of tools". Yes, .net framework is a box full of tools. If you don't know anything about .net, just be quiet and listen--you're blind when you're in love with something.

Oh well, good luck to all mates.
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  #122  
Old 04-04-2006, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandnew
VB.net opened my eyes to see how crude VB6 is. I realized how funny I had been to support vb6 in "vb6 vs c++" debates. I had been blinded all the way by some vb6 extremists. In old days, I would love someone comparing "vb6 vs c++" as "apple vs orange", but now i believe i don't. In this case, I believe "vb6 vs vb.net" is more like "a tool vs a box full of tools". Yes, .net framework is a box full of tools. If you don't know anything about .net, just be quiet and listen--you're blind when you're in love with something.

Oh well, good luck to all mates.
Right on man.
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  #123  
Old 04-04-2006, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_R
(1) NET languages such as C#, VB.NET etc. are better at handling large scale projects [...]
That has not always been the case in my experience, or at least with large, multi person projects.
I worked on a two person project with someone using VS.Net 2002. We wrote all of our code sepretly (but working together), and when we were done....we had to find some way to combine everything for the final release. This was more trouble than you realize at the time.
But now with VS.Net 2005, Microsoft has put out an entire version of VS for multiperson developers (I think it is called "Team System" or something like that) to make it that much easier for those types of projects.

Although I have come a full 180 degrees in my view of .Net over the past 2-3 years, I still know people who still contend that VB6 will be around forever (despite Microsoft saying different) and you can do anything in VB6 you can do in .Net.....Easier.
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  #124  
Old 04-04-2006, 10:56 AM
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Yeah, as for multi-team projects, I don't know, I've not done that to date... although my next project almost certainly will be. I'm curious how that "Team System" works, I guess it's a multi-user version of Source Safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjeffy321
I still know people who still contend that VB6 will be around forever (despite Microsoft saying different) and you can do anything in VB6 you can do in .Net.....Easier.
I would say that VB6 can do the easy stuff easier. And the "easy stuff" might be 50-80% of what you do in .NET. However, once you get past the "easy part" and start pushing past it, then .NET starts pulling away. This is normal though, one can definately make the same argement for VBA vs. compiled VB 6.0. VBA is much quicker to get something up-and-running. But if the project gets large enough, VBA gets unweildy and you'd be better off compiling, possibly to multiple DLLs, using VB 6.0.

That said, I think it's the vastness/complexity of the .NET Framework's object model that makes .NET "harder" to do the same things when compared to VB 6.0; the VB6 vs. VB.NET languages are so similar, that even on the "easy part" VB.NET does compare quite well. If you are going to get snagged on anything when making an "easy" or "small" project in .NET, it's likely to be (a) misunderstandings of how Value Types vs. Reference Types are handled in .NET, (b) stumbling in the new, complex .NET Framework, or (c) deployment, which can get tricky in .NET and has nothing to do with the size of the project itself...
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  #125  
Old 04-04-2006, 05:50 PM
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"VB6 extremists"???????


Struth! Dr Memory and I can't decide whether to die laughing, or perhaps we should reinforce security at the Laboratory of Solitude, or maybe relocate it (yet again) deeper in the (rapidly diminishing) wilderness ....


People with strongly-held views do tend to be confused with extremists. To my way of thinking, the latter term implies a clinging to arguably irrational views, usually combined with an inability (or unwillingness) to even consider an alternative point of view, or to even consider the possibility that they might be wrong ....


Hmmmmm ... it occurs to me that this definition leads to the inescapable conclusion that various contemporary national governments (like my own!), allegedly "democratic", are in fact extermists!

Anyway, back to the subject - I have stated repeatedly that the underlying principle in comparing languages should be "horses for courses", aka "the best tool for the job". And that job varies wildly ....

Most programmers build applications, and there are different kinds of applications, as you all know, and different DEPLOYMENT models for all of them (web-based? local network? non-distributive?).

And there's also a whole world of programming that many appn programmers simply never see - this world is loosely referred to as "systems programming", but includes everything that ISN'T a front-end application, or is a tool for using in an SDK, or the OS, or is part of the OS, or is a service like a math library, etc etc etc......

What's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander .... one important distinction is that, to a large extent, the systems (aka "technical") programmer tends to prefer an SDK that has much less abstraction levels (being "distance" from the underlying OS or CPU).

The applications programmer, naturally, is more likely to benefit from increasing levels of abstraction .....

I guess what makes me a little unusual is that, while most systems programmers work in C, or C dialects, I have found that VB6, despite its intended audience (ie application developers), is a remarkably useful language for general-purpose, or technical use

Or should I say, is a remarkably useful SDK! A language per se is not the whole story, the development environment is also crucial.

So I don't criticise VB.Net at all from a technical point of view, since I don't use it. But I do have good reasons for not using it. It's simply not the right tool for what I tend to do most of the time .... but I can see that it is clearly beneficial to the majority of app developers, so just carry on with what you're doing, guys, just don't trash VB6!


Finally, I intend to make no more speeches on this subject, so as they say, "Goodbye and good luck!"
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  #126  
Old 04-04-2006, 06:00 PM
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I guess what makes me a little unusual is that, while most systems programmers work in C, or C dialects, I have found that VB6, despite its intended audience (ie application developers), is a remarkably useful language for general-purpose, or technical use
You and Doctor Memory would know best... You've proved this and amazed us over and over.



Quote:
I can see that it is clearly beneficial to the majority of app developers, so just carry on with what you're doing, guys, just don't trash VB6!
Ahh... We all love VB6, it's like your first girlfriend, you'll always remember her with fondness...
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  #127  
Old 04-04-2006, 06:53 PM
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Trashing any language is just plain silly.
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  #128  
Old 04-04-2006, 10:06 PM
shaul_ahuvaThe Official VB6 vs VB.NET Thread shaul_ahuva is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_R
Yeah, as for multi-team projects, I don't know, I've not done that to date... although my next project almost certainly will be. I'm curious how that "Team System" works, I guess it's a multi-user version of Source Safe...
The source-control part of Team System is actually a lot more robust than VSS - I only vaguely remember some of this information, but the bug-tracking support in Team System was demonstrated at the launch events. The idea is that you log a bug, a person fixes it and commits the code changes as "pending" and then someone can review the changes and either commit them, dump them, or modify them and then commit. There were other things, but I was too interested in getting my free software

Besides source control, there's a bunch of other stuff for each of the different roles (tester, developer and architect) - automated testing (user interface, load, unit, etc.), deployment diagrams with validation, MSProject integration, and the list goes on.

I haven't gotten a change to play with it (and I doubt I every will since money hasn't started growing on trees yet), but it definitely sounds interesting.
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  #129  
Old 04-05-2006, 02:57 AM
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MathImagics, calm down man. You gotta know the reason why I leave VB6 stuffs, not vb.net's, in my sig. VB6 opened up my eyes to see how cool, easy computer programming was, how I can put together blocks of code to make a miracle. So, this first girlfriend changed my life!

But now I believe we vb6 lovers should move on, because .net is the way to go now. I just don't know the reason why we shouldn't. VB.net is like "our prayers answered". Full object-orient, multi-threading, web service, etc. Aren't these new technologies we always wanted and needed?
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  #130  
Old 04-05-2006, 04:58 AM
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Sigh ..... I think you have a lot to learn, my friend. I am always calm, and Reboot is always cool, in fact, like a good crisp riesling, he's usually quite well-chilled.

Perhaps you just didn't read my last post thoroughly. The "we" that you refer to may well benefit from the features you mention, but you appear to assume that your concept of "we" represents the set of all programmers engaged in similar activities to you. I went to some length to try and explain that the IT world is in fact a much more richly and diversely populated one than that.

Can you seriously imagine MicroSoft themselves deciding to rewrite the Win32 Kernel in some .NET subset? Hardly!

As for being "frozen in time", I doubt that you'll find much disagreement around here over which of the two statements above is actually the silly one.


PS: Yes, I know, I was meant to be out of here .......

I forgot to unsubscribe!

Iridescence and transparency will, in this case, indeed be followed by ... absence.


PPS: I think it's the way IT teaching is done these days, they teach OO stuff in such a way as to leave the students under the impression that nothing else matters! Just today I heard that the Head of School of IT at the ANU complaining that an (optional and higher-level) unit called "Fundamentals of Algorithms" should be changed to eliminate the section on the Theory of Computability ("like, come on, that's not IT, that's maths"). The Head of School? At a research institution?

sigh, and sigh again ....
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  #131  
Old 05-02-2006, 03:20 AM
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Default Visual Basic 2005?

Hi there,

I'm using VB6, and I realize that there is a new version of VB named "Visual Basic 2005". Should I upgrade my VB and my programs to the new version or not? Is it "Visual Basic 2005 .Net" or its a new version of old VB?

Thanks
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  #132  
Old 05-02-2006, 08:32 AM
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Hi Kaveh,

No reason to panic...

Good old VB 6.0 is still fine for now, but I would seriously consider learning VB.NET on the side. Eventually, you'll feel strong enough in VB.NET and will likely want to make the leap...

You could use a good VB.NET book and a VB.NET program so that you can actually write code. Amazingly, both can be had for free:

Check out these handy links here: VB.NET Handy Links, and pay particular attention to links #5 and #6 where you can get a free VB.NET book download (it's an excellent book, btw) and the VB.NET 20005 Express version so you can kick around some code.

If you want to see a longwinded discussion on the topic of VB.NET vs. VB 6.0, see link #4, "The Officially Longwinded VB.NET Discussion".

But to answer your question directly: VB.NET is basically a whole new environment. The syntax of the language is pretty much identical to that of VB 6.0, but there are so many new concepts that VB.NET is still difficult to learn. I personally believe, however, that it is very much worth the effort. .NET is the present and the future, it pays to start learning about it.

I hope this helps!
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  #133  
Old 05-02-2006, 04:11 PM
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Well I don't know about all that .NET is the present and the future jazz, but the 2.0 framework (as in VB 2005) has some very nice language features (function overloading is big) that once you get used to using them, you will wonder how you survived without them.

With 2005, you can continue programming in your normal "style" while you learn the ropes. This really wasnt possible with earlier versions of VB.NET which lacked modules and such.

Since VB.NET 2005 Express is completely free...at least give it a day or two of hands-on consideration.
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  #134  
Old 05-04-2006, 03:13 AM
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Thank you very much for your helpful comments & links.
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  #135  
Old 05-05-2006, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockoon
Well... the 2.0 framework (as in VB 2005) has some ...
So do you mean "Visual Basic 2005" (this is the terms Microsoft gives) is NOT a new version of Visual Basic? It still requires .NET framework, isn't it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockoon
...With 2005, you can continue programming in your normal "style" while you learn the ropes...
Sounds good. I know VB (legacy) well, as everyone can do. I need to produce and not just sitting in the office learning.

So I need to be able to continue create my component, deploy it for production (our ASP's instance objects of the class we create in VB). This is my concern to be able to continue programming in the normal "style", (well some changes expected but no major?).
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  #136  
Old 05-05-2006, 04:37 PM
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VB 2005 uses the .NET 2.0 framework. VB 2003 uses the .NEt 1.1 Framework.

The Syntax used for VB.NET "looks" very similar to that of VB 6.0, but really, it's like learning a whole new language. It will feel more familiar than trying to learn C#, but at it's core, .NET is .NET and VB 2005 is a "VB.NET 2.0" if you will.

Overall, I would try to learn VB.NET on the side and absolutely do not try to just jump right in and use it at work. You should get yourself a book and a free copy VB 2005 Express (see the link to "Handy Links", above) and eventually you'll feel comfortable enough to use it in a work setting... But it will take a while.

I think it's worth learning for sure. For most people, once you're hooked, it's hard to imagine gonig back. But in my opinion there is a pretty big learning cuve.

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  #137  
Old 06-10-2006, 09:09 AM
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The fact that windows vista won't break vb6 apps means that staying developing in vb6 for the best part of another decade is a real possibility.
This looks like MS bending to pressure as does the improvements in vb2005, eg in the code conversion tool.
Is vb.net in trouble numbers wise, perhaps?
If enough vb6 developers hang in there and don't change over whats the chances on MS giving in and providing a pathway forward for for vb6 into a proper vb7 with unmanaged code and silent upgrade of vb6 apps?
Something similar to what they did for the far fewer numbered C++ community.
Isn't this one of those situations to steer clear of a new product (ie .net) until the dust finally settles?
At the very least, as the conversion tool improves with each successive version of .net the transition will be less painful.
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  #138  
Old 06-10-2006, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Gardener
The fact that windows vista won't break vb6 apps means that staying developing in vb6 for the best part of another decade is a real possibility.
I think that, in order to break compatibility with VB6 apps, it would be necessary to break compatibility with 32-bit software in general. VB6 is as good a language as any for the development of 32-bit apps and, even if MS decided not to ship the VB6 runtime files after Vista, you could always prepare a setup file including all of them. Frankly speaking, I don't think MS will be so stupid as to say goodbye to COM technology when the successor to Vista is released. The amount of 32-bit software you can find in circulation is unprecedented, and forcing millions of users to get rid of it could backfire. People would seriously start thinking about alternative operating systems, such as Linux or the new Intel-based MAC OS.


Quote:
This looks like MS bending to pressure as does the improvements in vb2005, eg in the code conversion tool.
MS has realized that many (too many?) VB6 developers have decided not to switch to .NET or to switch to an alternative programming language. The simple fact that, after so many years since the VB6's demise, you can still find very popular discussion forums dedicated to legacy VB code (like this one) tells a long story about it.

Quote:
If enough vb6 developers hang in there and don't change over whats the chances on MS giving in and providing a pathway forward for for vb6 into a proper vb7 with unmanaged code and silent upgrade of vb6 apps?
Something similar to what they did for the far fewer numbered C++ community.
What you pointed out makes a lot of sense: I am more than sure that, if MS came up with a new unamanaged version of VB, it would be a landslide success. As you said, they did it for "the far fewer numbered C++ community." So, why not do it for the millions of VB6 users who, after so many years, still join together all over the world in places like Xtreme VB Talk?
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  #139  
Old 06-10-2006, 10:48 AM
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Maybe you haven't noticed, but the legacy sections of this forum are slowly dying. We all knew it was coming, and it was the reason we created the .Net sections in the first place, so that the entire board wouldn't die. Make no mistake, even though MS has made some concessions to people like you who would rather die than change, there won't be any new "VB6" versions.

And you're also mistaken in another area. This is a VB forum, not a VB6 forum.
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  #140  
Old 06-10-2006, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reboot
Maybe you haven't noticed, but the legacy sections of this forum are slowly dying. We all knew it was coming, and it was the reason we created the .Net sections in the first place, so that the entire board wouldn't die.
I have just taken a look at the number of currently active users viewing the General section of legacy VB in this forum: 183, which alone seems to be greater than the total number of all the users viewing the VB.NET related sections. (Please correct me if I couldn't read the numbers correctly)

So, I wouldn't say the legacy sections are slowly dying in favour of VB.NET. I'd rather say that the number of people abandoning VB keeps increasing day by day. I think that many just switch to some other (non-.NET based) language. Obviously, sooner or later VB6 users will die out. Nevertheless, I am not sure that the majority of them conceive VB.NET as the real successor to unmanaged VB.

Quote:
Make no mistake, even though MS has made some concessions to people like you who would rather die than change, there won't be any new "VB6" versions.
I think I made it clear in other threads that, in my opinion, there must be a valid reason for changing. If I changed now, I would lose a lot of customers because I sell shareware programs and deploying the Framework would be a headache for me. It's a shame that MS is not going to release any new unmanaged VB versions. I think they would get a lot of money from people like me. And, believe it or not, I found an army of people sharing my anti-.NET point of view.

Quote:
And you're also mistaken in another area. This is a VB forum, not a VB6 forum.
I know it very well. I have just replied to a user who wanted some tips about how to convert VB3 code into VB6. I said VB6 because I think that nobody today is using VB3 and VB4. And I see no signifcant difference between VB5 and VB6.
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