Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization
Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization
Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization
Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization
Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization
Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization
Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization
Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization
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Old 03-22-2015, 05:19 PM
hDC_0Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization hDC_0 is offline
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Default Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization


Sorry to say, but it's time for another MSR (Microsoft Research) themed TD thread.
(Yeah, I was a little bored today..)

Let's start with Microsoft HoloLens.

Of course everyone has seem the VR glasses, and the augmented reality walkthru, so I won't both to post any links.

The official Microsoft HoloLens page is just pure vaporware hype at this point,
but I will provide a link to an old 2009 xvbt thread:
Thoughts about info display and the evolution of more sophisticated interfaces

It sort of gives a good idea of what the active members thought of such a things back then
and I bet things probably haven't changed much to this day.

However, since there is so much hype over the last few years about the clunky looking Oculus Rift VR goggles,
(even before Facebook spent 2 billion to acquire the technology),
it as least deserves a mention under the category of "Microsoft tries to stay relevant" category.


Moving on to the (future) "death" of IE.
Hopefully everyone has been following Project Spartan, so I'll just provide a few links:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-the...rt-extensions/

..which speculates about the SPARTAN acronym:
Quote:
There are other mentions of Spartan in Microsoft's job posts which may or may not be related to IE Spartan.
There are a couple of openings on an Information Platform Group (IPG) known as SPARTANs, or Special Projects and Resources Team (SPARTAN).
While the SPARTANs seem to be a part of Microsoft's Advertising group, they also seem to have some goals that could dovetail with those working on IE Spartan.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2...iew-build.aspx

http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2015...oject-spartan/

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2...riorities.aspx

https://github.com/InternetExplorer/Status.IE


What about the old "browser plugin model" XAX?

I say old because it's one of those MSR projects that has been struggling to make it out of "research phase' since 2008.

Quote:
Xax employs a novel combination of mechanisms that collectively provide security, OS-independence, performance, and support for legacy code.
These mechanisms include memory-isolated native code execution behind a narrow syscall interface, an abstraction layer that provides a consistent binary interface across operating systems, system services via hooks to existing browser mechanisms, and lightweight modifications to existing tool chains and code bases.
All the gobbledygook is (I believe) alluding to DrawBridge's picoprocess-ing.

The author of this article sort of draws the same conclusion.

Years later it was still a "futuristic" Microsoft technology per this article from 2011.


But (again years later) it looks like DrawBridge has finally made it out of the lab buried inside Windows 8.1 per this Channel 9 post.

Of course everyone has already also visited the Microsoft DrawBridge project page (I've been keeping it bookmarked for a while now).
Quote:

Drawbridge is a research prototype of a new form of virtualization for application sandboxing. Drawbridge combines two core technologies: First, a picoprocess, which is a process-based isolation container with a minimal kernel API surface. Second, a library OS, which is a version of Windows enlightened to run efficiently within a picoprocess.

Drawbridge combines two ideas from the literature, the picoprocess and the library OS, to provide a new form of computing, which retains the benefits of secure isolation, persistent compatibility, and execution continuity, but with drastically lower resource overheads.
I know what you're thinking:
"Oooh..the PhD-heads at Microsoft had finally discovered virtualization."

Try to stifle those yawns..it's really not that trivial.
Microsoft is really trying (in its own way) --and maybe in the post-Ballmer era it might actually go somewhere..

Microsoft even thought enough of it to try and patent it.
(Who knows though --it might just be the lawyers giving themselves legal ammunition
just in case Microsoft decides to gets really serious about virtualization).


Oh and here's a Microsoft pdf on DrawBridge that mentions XAX (just to add another connection document besides the Channel 9 post above).



So what else is Microsoft research cooking up?
Tons of stuff (but most of with will probably never make it out of MSR)

A couple of pages I have bookmarked though:

Donnybrook - Enabling large-scale, high-speed, peer-to-peer games

Embassies - some browser technology that (who knows) maybe have some internal connection to Spartan. At least it has a CodePlex page (which means it's not just fodder for another research paper).

There's a link on the Embassies page that leads to a PDF that comes up time and time again when you search for "picoprocess" off the MSR main page.

Probably means it's relevant even thought it's POSIX oriented.



Oh..I should probably update a little some of the other "futuristic" technologies mentioned in the link about.

Microsoft CodeBook still has a MSR page, even though the other MSR Codebook page that comes up most often in google is still the one from back in 2009.

Verve looks about dead as the MSR Singularity project that spawned it.

Checking my old bookmarks, I find this old Verve channel 9 page still has a link to the old Singularity RDK source code page on CodePlex (which amazingly isn't dead/broken).

Microsoft SafeOS news hasn't really surfaced since 2010.
Midori pretty much the same.

I kinda figured Verve was going nowhere when I saw an MIT AI lab researcher co-authoring the original paper.

If you spend much time on the CSAIL site (like I do) you just have to <*sigh*> and shake your head how isolated these Ivory Tower types perpetually seem to be.

Yes, MIT does merit inclusion on the Wikipedia AI projects page, but it's usually the other projects that have actually had some real world impact (like Siri and Cortana).

One could argue that many of the projects on the list are not "true AI".

Both Google and Microsoft have (ongoing) what are called "Deep Learning" projects.

Google's is named DistBelief (1, 2, 3).

Microsoft project is named Adam (1, 2, 3).

The Google groups forum for deeplearning4j still is also reasonable active.

Are they going to change the world --probably not, but maybe they'll lead to something.
I think DistBelief is actually used in connection with Google Translate.
Anything that could help Bing be a little smarter with it's image search capability is welcome.

Right now there are 1077 projects going on at MSR (including some for .Net), so feel free to check them out.

Last edited by hDC_0; 03-22-2015 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 03-23-2015, 10:19 PM
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I got the idea that "Project Spartan" was a takeoff on the Metro Personality of IE seen in the WinRT environment of the failed Windows 8.x OSs.

It just seems to take this further with a stripped down and radically reworked version of the Trident rendering engine... or perhaps a clean-roomed brand new rendering engine? So far the popular press is doing what it does best: obfuscating reality through its lack of literacy while Microsoft seems to be speaking in pronouns without antecedents.

So "Spartan" is probably just the new Metro IE, made the default Windows browser. Now in an ugly flat floating window in hopes of keeping WinRT around instead of just ditching it.


I doubt IE itself is gone at all because that would break tons of things. Microsoft has made so many false steps I doubt they would survive that one. But while some work hard...

A lot of things Microsoft does these days seems to be nothing but marketing, aimed at the public and at investors. Sort of last ditch attempts to avoid spooking the herd before people at the top and their sycophants find a way to bail out themselves. In some ways it is just burning company cash to distract the pitchfork-wielding villagers and bondsmen (internal developers) as they flee out the back door of the collapsing castle with bags of gold on their backs.
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Old 05-06-2015, 10:01 AM
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The current build of Spartan isn't looking too bad, still a bit of an early preview and lacking in functionality but seems to have a much better underlying rendering engine than IE. I think the fact it can happily co-exist with IE is a good thing. IE is still there for websites that need it, such as internal corporate apps that originally targeted IE and aren't going to be updated while newer websites (including internal ones) can be developed using a more standards based approach.
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:51 PM
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I believe the trust is gone.

People still on XP (get moving!) or on Vista (almost as bad now) have already been orphaned by Microsoft. Even Vista machines can't get anything newer than IE9, and that's still a supported OS! Many sites are already telling IE9 users they're dropping support very soon.

This has led a lot of shops to just move to Firefox, Chrome, etc.

I can't imagine Spartan offering them a thing that will bring them back, especially considering they're unlikely to move to Windows 10 until years from now.

Combine that with announcements that Windows 10 will be a constantly mutating platform with frequent large-scale updates... I suspect more and more people will Just Say No to Microsoft.

One of the main reasons Microsoft platforms became popular was long life, stability, and backward compatibility. With that baby thrown out with the bathwater people are going to find it far, far easier to consider alternatives for their browsers and their operating systems.

The short term winner might be Citrix et al. during the interval it takes to migrate legacy applications to newer platforms, RDP-ing to a server when an old app needs to be used.

Microsoft may have just blown its last foot off. The continuing chaos in the desktop Linux ecosystem means it remains as unlikely a contender as its ever been, while Android and ChromeOS show real promise as the desktop of tomorrow.
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Old 05-15-2015, 06:28 AM
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Vista is now in Extended support and has been for about three years, I would say the lack of updates to IE on these older platforms is a consequence of the "bundle IE with the OS" debacle, a problem Microsoft caused for themselves.

The shift to other browsers by users is perfectly understandable, as is Microsoft's attempt to provide a better browser than IE and tempt them back. As long as Spartan (or Edge as I believe it is now called) is standards compliant and performs well then it is another valid choice for the user to consider. In an enterprise environment having the OS provided browser actually work and be usable is going to be a bonus.

As much as Windows 10 is going to be a constantly mutating platform, that has been the case for many a year anyway with service packs, updates etc. all adding and changing functionality. The fact it is now officially noted as being that way, with the promise of control over the updates doesn't strike me as being a bad thing. Consumers get lots of shiny updates and new things to play with while enterprise environments get to control WU as normal and can restrict updates to security patches only rather than feature additions, or even a mixed approach that allows a more staged and controlled roll out of feature updates.

On a desktop environment backwards compatibility is still a big thing, nothing is forcing apps to migrate to the new WinRT world, desktop short cuts still exist as does the start menu etc. The familiarity is there as the runtime support. The promise of a universal platform will certainly have appeal to a lot of businesses though as a single code base could be deployed to the desktop, tablet or phone. On various forums people seem to be running VB6 apps, and indeed VB6 itself on Windows 10 with little to no issues (certainly less that Windows 8 seemed to have).

If a company has any kind of legacy software or windows based systems in use then Chrome OS or Android on the desktop are hardly valid choices, Chrome OS is just too limited and Android is really no more than another contender in the Linux world.

I personally have no issues with the current state of play from MS and quite frankly think things are looking a lot better since Steve Ballmer left, the company seems to have some direction and focus again and some very impressive things happening in the developer side of things.
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Old 05-17-2015, 08:10 AM
hDC_0Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization hDC_0 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilettante
People still on XP (get moving!) or on Vista (almost as bad now) have already been orphaned by Microsoft. Even Vista machines can't get anything newer than IE9, and that's still a supported OS! Many sites are already telling IE9 users they're dropping support very soon.

This has led a lot of shops to just move to Firefox, Chrome, etc.

I can't imagine Spartan offering them a thing that will bring them back, especially considering they're unlikely to move to Windows 10 until years from now.

Combine that with announcements that Windows 10 will be a constantly mutating platform with frequent large-scale updates... I suspect more and more people will Just Say No to Microsoft.
I agree.
I haven't used IE for anything but testing my IE cross browser compatibility "hacks" and polyfills for years.
My clients (who have also switch to Firefox/chrome and still mostly running WinXP/Win7) say
no ActiveX in the browser means much less spyware and search engine hijaacking.

None of them say screen touch input is important in a corporate or small business environment,
so none is running Win 8/8.1 and have any compelling reason to adopt Win10 even if its "free" for a year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp
Vista is now in Extended support and has been for about three years, I would say the lack of updates to IE on these older platforms is a consequence of the "bundle IE with the OS" debacle, a problem Microsoft caused for themselves.
I agree..it's a debacle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp
I personally have no issues with the current state of play from MS and quite frankly think things are looking a lot better since Steve Ballmer left, the company seems to have some direction and focus again and some very impressive things happening in the developer side of things.
I can't say enough bad things about Mr. Ballmer.
Thank goodness for Microsoft he is gone, and Microsoft's "Lost Years" are in (hopefully) in the rear view mirror,
but we'll always be left with his legacy - one of the most awkward IDE transitions in history (from VB6 to VB.Net)
and never a decent auto-code conversion utility to boot.

Even though Nadella apologized for this, he has been totally silent about .

I read through something like this and guess where my sympathies lie.

I guess Microsoft will never be "contrite", but I'm still not convinced, even with Nadella in charge, that Microsoft's "age of arrogance" is fully over.

That is my main disagreement "with the current state of play from MS".
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Old 05-19-2015, 12:04 PM
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Cheers for the link to Microsoft's Lost Years a pretty good article and one I pretty much agree with 100%

I must admit to being a big fan of .Net and really don't miss VB6, luckily I haven't been in the position of needing to support any VB6 code for a very long time. I dread to think how I would feel if I had to start using the VB6 IDE and losing so many language features I now rely on after several years of Visual Studio and .Net (especially the last couple of releases)

I do however think a lot of the changes going from VB6 to .Net were pretty justified but a decent code migration tool would really have helped ease the pain. The inability to simply migrate code between versions must have been the biggest limiting factor in a lot of companies moving forward.
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Old 09-24-2015, 09:39 PM
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Cerian KnightDeath of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization Cerian Knight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hDC_0 View Post
Moving on to the (future) "death" of IE.
Not so fast, Edge and IE will work together:
https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/...he-enterprise/
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Old 09-25-2015, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp View Post
Vista is now in Extended support and has been for about three years, I would say the lack of updates to IE on these older platforms is a consequence of the "bundle IE with the OS" debacle, a problem Microsoft caused for themselves.
But Vista was the Windows release that decoupled IE from Windows. So the argument against new versions of IE on Vista is pretty darned weak.
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Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization
Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization
Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization
Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization
Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization
Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization
Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization
Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization
 
Death of IE, Project Spartan, HoloLens, XAX, DrawBridge, picoprocess containerization
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